So, who is going to employ all these disabled people the government wants to wean of welfare

[Jimisnotmyname]

Really wondering. Not saying it is necessarily a bad thing to encourage those who can work, to work but as a carer for 2 disabled family members, I am hugely struggling to find another job as nobody is willing to give me any flexibility (which I need as a carer) and there are always candidates who do not need the same accomodations I do. I would imagine that many of those currently not in work because of disability or a health condition, will often need a similar level of flexibility. I just wonder who on the the government think will offer jobs galore on these circumstances??

I don't think they care, as long as it reduces the benefits bill. Hopefully more people will find the strength to go to tribunal, where a lot of dwp decisions are overturned.

Think this will backfire on Labour. I was listening to BBC Radio5 Live on Saturday night, the Stephen Nolan show, and a caller came on who said he was 62, with paranoid schizophrenia, Crohn's disease, diabetes and arthritis. This caller mentioned at least 2 other health conditions, and was dreading the cuts. He said he had worked for the DWP previously, so I hope he has enough inside knowledge of the benefit system to play Labour at their own game, what job could he do with all those illnesses?

What's your objective - that you want me to say I've limited my opportunities to enjoy life and made it all up just so I can claim PIP?

It took three years of testing to rule everything else out before I was diagnosed by TWO separate doctors.

I've been through the "oh it can't be that bad" from friends and colleagues, though the raised eyebrow of my son when I (yet again) ask him do do something I can't manage (He's much more understanding now), dismissal by locum GPs who haven't read my notes etc etc. I've even been through the self doubt where I try and convince myself that it's not that bad, do too much and end up in a major flare.

The fact is I HAVE Fibromyalgia. When there's a definitive test, I'll take it and prove it. Until then I'll take the word of the medical professionals.

That is a lovely idea ... and I'm not saying there isn't some tiny bit of merit to it...

However 'disability' is almost never just one condition, one thing affected. It is usually a combination of things, plus side effects from medication, and then deterioration for a variety of reasons.

Two people with, on paper, the same disability may need very different accomodations and be capable/not capable of a differing range of tasks.

You can't just say 'oh someone with X condition can do this, someone with Y condition can do that'...

I see a lot of this over simplification of disability from people who are not disabled, but even people who are cannot really speak for anyone but themselves.

Also whoever it was who was discussing 'people in wheelchairs' - you realise that covers a HUGE range of disabilities and a huge range of wheelchairs with different sizes and functions. Somewhere wheelchair accessible for my best friend may well NOT be wheelchair accessible to me. We're both ambulatory wheelchair users, both rapidly becoming less ambulatory as conditions deteriorate, we use our wheelchairs about the same amount... but our capability for specific tasks is massively different, because we actually have very different disabilities. You really cannot determine who can do what by what mobility aid they use!

People keep saying 'properly disabled people will be fine'

I'm properly disabled. I have a blue badge. I get Mobility and Daily living.

I Was on ESA. In the support group, judged unable to work.

I got 10 points on PIP daily living but because its spread out over 5 descriptors I dont qualify now and am suddebly able to work? Just because they moved the goalpost 2 points?

Yes it does if over 21 , It goes up to £12.21 an hour in April. £12,21 x 35 hours x 52 weeks is £22,222 per year for minimum wage,

I mean this kindly. There is no 'diagnosis' of fibromyalgia. It's a diagnosis of elimination. Meaning, once they've excluded all illnesses or diseases by tests, they'll call it 'fibromyalgia'. It's a syndrome not an illness if that makes sense.its synonymous with "we don't know what's causing this lady's symptoms"

It doesn't take away your pain and your symptoms. I don't refute your experience.

But there is no process happening within the body in fibromyalgia. It's a functional syndrome. I really don't think the medical profession are doing service to vulnerable patients by chucking a label at them in the hope of validating them so that they'll 'go away'.

This is a bizarre take to me. I've worked in an office of a care agency and it's one of the most demanding institutions of its workers I've ever known. Similar education, the pressure and responsibility is huge. I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely just very unsure where you think there is meaningful flexibility in these jobs for people whose capacity fluctuates frequently?

If you're thinking along the lines of care homes offering shift work and education sector having frequent holidays I'm afraid you're not grasping the reality of the level of flexibility disabled/mentally ill people will require.

Hi @Puyyt This is awful! I hope you don't mind my asking - what were the previous descriptors, and what are the new ones? Just trying to understand more, and am sure (hope) your knowledge/experience would help a lot of the naysayers on here!

It's just a matter of weeding out the malingerers as absolutely no one (I assume) would want those in genuine need to go without. But we all presumably remember the people at school who used to pretend they had something wrong with them..mainly to get out of games permanently or to get attention or to avoid doing something they didn't want to do. Some sort of disability..and presumably those people acted much the same as adults in the workplace (or avoiding the workplace). Whereas those who actually genuinely struggled with a genuine condition were always much quieter about it and more stoic and just tried to get through each day as best they could. Everyone at school knew who was who and who was real. I suppose no one can tell these days and so everyone gets lumped in the same pot which I assume must be bloody infuriating.

I think the only way to realistically weed them out is to make sure you will always be better off in work than claiming benefits.

@BobbyBiscuits , obviously there are people totally unable to hold down any type of employment but these reforms are clearly not aimed at them.

"Is someone who needs a lot of support with, say, toileting and dressing, necessarily going to have more costs than someone who needs moderate support with toileting, dressing, preparing food, and washing? It doesn't really add up."

I don't know about "necessarily" but certainly in the case of my DM who does need support in those areas there certainly does come a point where there is an awful lot of extra support required.

And, basically, the more support that is needed the more it is going to cost. I would just add that if a person needs a lot of support with toileting and dressing then it is likely that they will also need a similar amount of support with preparing food etc.

It is not a simple case that those are the only areas where they require support. If a person needs support going to the toilet then it is quite likely that they require similar levels of support in other areas of their life as well.

The descriptors are the same but instead of just needing 8 points to qualify, in any format you now need to get 4 in one descriptor and at least 2 x 2 in others.

My 10 is made up of 5 x 2.

So i no longer qualify.

@Idratherbepaddleboarding , you are an example to us all of how to rise above our personal issues. I really wish you well.

To be fair, I can agree with some of the things you say.

When my doctor first started to mention Fibro, all of a sudden two of my social circle decided they have EXACTLY the same symptoms, one got a repeat prescription for codeine, one got the same meds that I was on (and admitted not taking them) - both applied for PIP (one got turned down). I've never seen either of them actually struggle, turn down a social activity or be anything less than perfectly groomed. A bit sickening when I have to ask my son to brush my hair for me. Yes, I know its an invisible disability but the timing, and the symptoms, made it very suspect.

So yes I can understand that Fibro is a condition which can be taken advantage of.

As I said, it took three years of testing - I was cleared for all the above as well as over/under active thyroid, diabetes, menopause etc etc. Recently been confirmed as Peri menopausal and it's making everything 10x worse unfortunately. Here's hoping the HRT helps.

Until they can come up with a definitive test or find out I have something the medical team haven't thought of yet, I'm stuck with a Fibro dx.

I apologise for "snapping" at you - I saw the words Wishy Washy and just saw red.

Why are you not able to work?

I hope that makes sense.

Previously it didnt matter what combination of points you had as long as you score over 8.

Now you could score 2 points on all 10 descriptors and not qualify,because you didnt get a 4 on one of them. Even though you have 20 points and 8 points used to be the award basis of standard daily living.

12 points is ENHANCED daily living.

But now if you score 3 on all 10 descriptors aand get 30 points you wouldnt even qualify for standard daily living.

The schemes absolutely do work, my DB is autistic and gained a job through scheme to help disabled people into work. He operates machinery in a construction yard, they put him through all the training and qualifications. It’s not a job I’d like to do, but for him it is ideal. It’s the same everyday, he knows what’s expected of him and it doesn’t change.

Another acquaintance with autism gained an admin job with the council through the scheme and has been there for years. They don’t have any interaction with customers, hours completed flexibly between 7-7, knows how to do the process and repeat.

There are absolutely great schemes out there, don’t write them all off. For DB it’s been absolutely life changing.

@mids2019 , Jesus! Your attitude is so defeatist! Part of what has been proposed is to focus more on what people CAN do as opposed to what they cannot. A much better approach for their mental health than just dumping them in the proverbial bin!

Just existing is exhausting for her, she does everything with her arms and hands. She’s always tired, nerve pain affects her sleep and her waking hours.
She has a working mindset though.

Fucking good for her. If my only disability was that I lopped both my legs off, I'd be able to do all that too.

@frogpighybrid

I hear you ! I am sick of being micro managed and having to cover absences, and I'm not even disabled. If Labour force seriously ill people into any job, how are these people who are patients, not fit employees, going to manage being in the current workplace, having to deal with the following
Health and Safety legislation (lol)
KPI's
Malicious management
National minimum wage
Incompetant unhelpful co workers
HMRC
Poor facilities*
*In one workplace I was shown around recently, there was a staff canteen with one working microwave, one small fridge between 30 night workers, it was Johnsons Laundry, the staff were washing hotel bed linen for the UK main hotels.

It isn't, not any more, research is moving along and new discoveries about it are being made, and have been made in the last year.

It's something that has very recently (literally last week) been floated by Pain Management clinic for me. Now i have a very real, identifiable chronic pain issue caused by degenerative disk disease and arthritis, i suffer with sciatica and have lost mobility in one of my hips. Alongside this i have a lot of as-yet unexplained joint pain, cramp, dysautonomia, migraines, paraesthesia in my hands/feet...etc

They know that Fibro is related to the brain, they know it's a dysfunction of the central nervous system, it becomes hyperactive and stops processing physical input correctly, and instead interprets it as pain. They know there are genetic factors for it.

My older brother has diagnosed ME/CFS that he developed post-viral (Guillain barre syndrome) and have directly told me that the fact he has that, genetically makes me more likely to have developed a similar CNS issue, especially with my already present neuropathy from my spine crumbling and my sensory processing issues from my Autism/ADHD.

I agree and hope he can get a job but the reality can sometimes be huge disappointment when the job ends, or isn't continued, which is an added stress to the young person.

There should be facilities, with paid and flexible working conditions that are financed by local and major employers, partial tax offset with no backing out, that employ people in the area with separate offices and shop floors, canteen and rest areas, that provide skill building and a chance to meet like minded people.

Every town and city should have this, especially towns with industrial estates.