Page 21 | Benefit cuts proposal

Charliechoosecarefully · 2025-03-18T13:35:08+00:00

I just wanted it to have a specific thread:- Kendall says government to consult on merging JSA and ESA benefits. Kendall says WCA being scrapped, with Pip assessment process being used instead - will be scrapped in 2028. Kendall says 'right to try' will let people on sickness benefits try work without immediately having benefits cut. Kendall says UC payments being rebalanced, with standard rate going up, and some health top-ups frozen or cut. Kendall says reassessments for people on universal credit with health top-ups to be beefed up Kendall says universal credit claimants with most severe disabilities will not face reassessment Kendall confirms Pip eligibility rules to be tightened, and assessment process to be reviewed - 4 pointed needed in one descriptor. Kendall says under-22s could be prevented from claiming health top-up for universal credit Sourced from the guardian.

Mirabai · 18/03/2025 17:51

Rosscameasdoody · 18/03/2025 17:32

I don’t disagree with anything you say about the Tories waging war on the disabled. But that doesn’t change the fact that many of the conditions being claimed for now were never intended to come under the remit of disability benefit. I largely agree with the four point rule because it proves that the claimant is not just reliant on aids, but is significantly impaired enough - even if only in one way - to warrant help from another person. It will redress the balance - my one reservation is that assessors will always defer to aids and appliances before they will award on the basis of needing help from an actual person, so it remains to be seen what effects the change will have in real terms.

What I do have an issue with is the complete abandonment of plans for a root and branch reform of the assessment process for PIP. The government admitted that it’s broken. Assessors employed by for profit organisations, working partly on a bonus basis, employing nurses, physios and paramedics instead of doctors and after a few days training expecting them to assess complex disability, in some cases far beyond their remit as medics. And there is no mention of the huge cost of appeal tribunals to which many claimants are forced to turn in order to get a fair decision from people who actually are qualified in the many facets of disability.

Successive governments have tried to do things on the cheap. So why are they surprised when the results reflect the methods ? This government have abandoned the promised reforms where they are actually needed, and like every other government before them, have resorted instead to punishing the claimant with yet more cuts which will inevitably impact genuinely disabled claimants, and which, given enough time, the fraudsters will find a way around.

I voted Labour, and although I agree in part with what’s been announced today - as far as PIP goes anyway - l feel totally let down that they are no different from their predecessors in not wanting to sort out the actual problem. That disabled people are getting a raw deal from one end of the assessment process to the other and all this government can do in response is to tinker around the edges instead of grasping the nettle and doing what needs to be done.

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I agree with some of what you say - particularly about the need for reform of the forms and assessment process. But it’s not true that people are claiming for conditions that were never intended to be covered - it’s not about specific conditions but impairment, need for aids and adaptations, and increased costs related to care and mobility.

What is true is that diagnoses of certain conditions has expanded - such as mental health conditions and neurological disorders such as ASD, but it is and always was very hard to meet the criteria to qualify for PIP/DLA for mental health. At the same time diagnosis serious illness such as cancer, heart disease has increased - partly due to better detection and diagnosis and partly due to increase of incidence in the population, as has survival rates for serious illness or events that would have killed people in the past, tho potentially leaving them in a disabled state (eg strokes, accidents etc).

I absolutely deplore reform that makes life even harder for genuine claimants as the process is already super stressful and tends to lead to relapses, without really tackling the core of the problem. It’s lazy, superficial.

SunnyViper · 18/03/2025 17:53

Sounds reasonable to me.

9fthighfence · 18/03/2025 17:53

APocketFullOfRye · 18/03/2025 17:19

Agree. I doubt it will be around forever.
Perhaps when more people have private pensions ? ( employer compulsory pensions for all since 2018…..although I’m sure it will go before then )

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The triple lock cannot go on dorever because it is designed to take up more and more of the UKs annual budget as the years go by. It was only ever meant to help pensions catch up from being poor to being something more reasonable. If it goes on forever there will be no other government money to spend whatsoever

Mirabai · 18/03/2025 17:55

Longsummerdays25 · 18/03/2025 17:36

I am based in the city I think I can see precisely what is happening thanks. The death of the city simply didn’t happen did it.

Where are you going to put tens of millions from the EU? We have a major housing crisis already in this country. You need to wise up and consider the practicalities.

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It didn’t die. But considerable funds and jobs moved into the EU as predicted.

Secretmeetings · 18/03/2025 17:55

The truly disabled need to be looked after. Let's be honest, the current set-up is a cash grab by many claiming cost of living.

Before anyone piles in, i have experienced poverty, loss and mental health trauma with no government intervention. It made me see how divisive the system is.

A reset of the system is desperately needed.

BrokenWing · 18/03/2025 17:55

I don't blame the company she worked for (other than the way they spoke to and treated her which was shocking) for not wanting the burden of someone who is unreliable - they only see the unreliable bit, that costs them money which is what they are there for not a social service. They don't see the employee who is trying their best to do what they can within the limitations of their disability that they can't change, the employee who offered to cover others workload and shifts when no-one else would to try, in vain, to make herself indispensable/valued and balance out the absences she couldn't control.

I saw my niece force herself into work for fear of another disciplinary, hoping she can last the shift out before going to hospital as she was off for a few days after and it wouldn't count as absence. They had to call an ambulance for her when she collapsed at work.

She truly is an inspiration for what she has gone through and survived and she is desperate to be a productive part of society, to be a good role model for her dd, but she has been slowly destroyed by the way her employers treated her , and it saddens me to see the spark she has fading. She is still there fighting, been to several interviews will take anything, but once she explains her absences that they see on her reference the interviews go nowhere.

What has happened to her health could happen to any one of us, or one of our loved ones.

Amberlynnswashcloth · 18/03/2025 17:55

Surprised that they never suggest means testing PIP. It seems unfair to me that a person in work, on a decent wage but scores 4 points in one category can claim PIP but someone unable to work, living in poverty, with 3 points in every category won't be able to claim the same financial support.

Kirbert2 · 18/03/2025 17:58

mummybeau · 18/03/2025 17:36

Agree completely with everything you've said.

My 7 yo has significant SEND, and significant needs at home compared to other children his age.

He's attending his mainstream school TWO whole hours, 4 days a week. Because we've been waiting a year for a specialist placement unsuccessfully, there's nowhere appropriate that agrees to meet need and isn't already oversubscribed.

I'm a single parent with physical health conditions and depression. I've had to leave my career, my job of 12 years because there's no way to work 1-1.5 hours a day. My PIP was stopped when my son was 16 weeks old (I went from enhanced daily living to 0 points based completely on the assessor's personal opinion that if I could single handedly keep a newborn alive, I wasn't entitled to disability benefits.

Of course disabled people can't cope as parents! Assessor's seem oblivious that actually often we manage by throwing all our energy into nurturing the tiny human and this means neglecting our own physical and mental health significantly...

I have tried three times to fill in the DLA forms for my son and haven't sent them off because I am unsure if I've done them right. I have a thick stack of supporting evidence including formal diagnosis' (ADHD, Autism, DCD, speech and language disorders,asleep disorder
EHCP describing every area of need as severe/complex/significant. I pleaded for help from social care, for short breaks/any break and son wasn't even assessed. I wasn't assessed as carer either. Instead we were fortunate to have 6 months of support from an early help worker who was fantastic but discharged us because her caseload was so full. There's no support. Imagine having the ability to send your child to a school that can keep them safe and meet their needs, and being able to actually go to work and earn money while child is at school?!

It's a lonely place to be. And it's more than lack of a full time suitable school place, it's school holiday childcare not being suitable or accessible to children with additional needs. Parents who haven't had to consider all these barriers are often clueless and judgemental. The whole SEND system needs an overhaul, then perhaps disability benefits could be changed..

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This is very similar to my son except he's 9 and right now isn't in school at all. He has a home tutor every weekday for 1 hour and is awaiting a EHCP which will hopefully get him back to mainstream school because he won't be eligible for special school so I've been told as he is disabled but not disabled enough.

Wildflowers99 · 18/03/2025 17:58

Rosscameasdoody · 18/03/2025 17:41

Would you apply that line of thinking if we were talking about cuts to child benefit, or nursery fees ? As a benefit advisor I often came across UC claimants who were claiming up to £1500 a month in childcare fees - and that was without the child benefit which can still be claimed on a single wage of £50k. That represents over twice the highest award of PIP.

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Yes I would.

I used to believe in the old socialism, ‘from each according to his means, to each according to their needs’.

But that was when needs were people disabled from working in a mine, or people with Down Syndrome, or people with amputations. Now ‘needs’ means nebulous things like sensory requirements, something to do with executive function, people with social anxiety… things you can’t really grasp, and far too many of them.

There seems to be a developing myth that some people are special and wired differently and deserve to be on benefits for life, because they’re just not like everyone who works.

I don’t believe that there aren’t jobs to fit somebody whatever their mental profile. But I feel like whatever is suggested or done to help these people, there will always be some kind of reason as to why they can’t do it, and we ‘just don’t understand’. I’m on the verge of thinking throwing £££ in mental health care and job coaches would be throwing good money after bad, maybe we should just slash benefits, give them a very basic package and then if they have the impetus they can find a job and improve things for themselves.

The taxpayer is tired. I’m tired. I’ve worked since I was 18. The streets in our town are full of potholes, our bins get taken less and less regularly, my kids’ school asks for basic items like cutlery because all the money goes on SEN. There’s talk of closing our library to fund yet more school transport, the public toilets have been locked up for good. I’m not in a position to feel benevolent toward anyone else until I feel I have an acceptable quality of life for my own children, and right now I’m not feeling that.

I expect a flaming for this, but I stand by it.

Rosscameasdoody · 18/03/2025 17:58

Bumpitybumper · 18/03/2025 17:30

Sorry but this absolutely isn't the reality of my cunning plan and you have made a hell of a lot incorrect assumptions about what I could and couldn't do. The reality is that the claim will probably successful when it goes to tribunal. Like 70% of claims are. I would have no less evidence than genuine claimants.

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At tribunal, the legalities surrounding PIP are still the same. So if an award on wholly mental health grounds requires second line consultant led evidence rather than simply GP evidence of antidepressants, then that’s the evidence you would need at tribunal. They still have to follow the law.

9fthighfence · 18/03/2025 17:59

Rosscameasdoody · 18/03/2025 17:43

When they do get the PIP award they can simply do the same thing can’t they ? Or are you telling me you wouldn’t do the same for your own family ?

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So child is self harming. On the CAMHS waiting list. Are you saying they should claim DLA to get money to buy therapy instead of just improving the NHS waiting list? Because what if it’s 3 sessions needed. Will they stop the DLA claim then? No they’ll just pocket the extra cash.

Of course it makes no sense to give PIP / DLA claimants money for therapy!

Bumpitybumper · 18/03/2025 18:00

Rosscameasdoody · 18/03/2025 17:58

At tribunal, the legalities surrounding PIP are still the same. So if an award on wholly mental health grounds requires second line consultant led evidence rather than simply GP evidence of antidepressants, then that’s the evidence you would need at tribunal. They still have to follow the law.

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I didn't say they didn't need to follow the same rules. 70% of appeals are successful at appeal so the odds are definitely in my favour. Also don't assume that just because I don't need antidepressants that I won't accept a prescription for them

Mirabai · 18/03/2025 18:00

Bumpitybumper · 18/03/2025 17:30

Sorry but this absolutely isn't the reality of my cunning plan and you have made a hell of a lot incorrect assumptions about what I could and couldn't do. The reality is that the claim will probably successful when it goes to tribunal. Like 70% of claims are. I would have no less evidence than genuine claimants.

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They’re not assumptions. I’ve worked in this area and I’m aware of what is required and what can and cannot be done.

Claims that are successful at tribunal are the genuine ones that present fuller evidence of the original claim. The reason for the high % of cases overturned at tribunal is because so many genuine claims are refused by the DWP. At tribunal you actually have to prove your case both medically and legally.

Penguinmouse · 18/03/2025 18:00

Oioisavaloy27 · 18/03/2025 17:49

See surely she is not entitled to pip now then? She obviously does not need it.

I know of a lady who claimed.pio because she was bullied at school she's in her 30's and never worked a day in her life. She also claims.for all her 4 children.

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Well this is the point - under current rules she’s entitled to it but isn’t using it towards her disability so she obviously doesn’t have increased costs. It’s not controversial to put a bit of nuance in a system where someone in full time employment who uses PIP to just pay their bills is judged under the same criteria as someone with significant extra costs. What does Emily need her PIP for?

Mirabai · 18/03/2025 18:01

Rosscameasdoody · 18/03/2025 17:58

At tribunal, the legalities surrounding PIP are still the same. So if an award on wholly mental health grounds requires second line consultant led evidence rather than simply GP evidence of antidepressants, then that’s the evidence you would need at tribunal. They still have to follow the law.

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Yep, exactly.

Secretmeetings · 18/03/2025 18:01

Amberlynnswashcloth · 18/03/2025 17:55

Surprised that they never suggest means testing PIP. It seems unfair to me that a person in work, on a decent wage but scores 4 points in one category can claim PIP but someone unable to work, living in poverty, with 3 points in every category won't be able to claim the same financial support.

If you are disabled you are disabled, no buts FACT. How is means testing it appropriate, basically claiming some truly disabled aren't....

We don't have a poor/ rich society but a benefit claimers/ non benefit claimers system. This is causing societal division when we should be aiming for cohesion.

Rosscameasdoody · 18/03/2025 18:01

Wildflowers99 · 18/03/2025 17:58

Yes I would.

I used to believe in the old socialism, ‘from each according to his means, to each according to their needs’.

But that was when needs were people disabled from working in a mine, or people with Down Syndrome, or people with amputations. Now ‘needs’ means nebulous things like sensory requirements, something to do with executive function, people with social anxiety… things you can’t really grasp, and far too many of them.

There seems to be a developing myth that some people are special and wired differently and deserve to be on benefits for life, because they’re just not like everyone who works.

I don’t believe that there aren’t jobs to fit somebody whatever their mental profile. But I feel like whatever is suggested or done to help these people, there will always be some kind of reason as to why they can’t do it, and we ‘just don’t understand’. I’m on the verge of thinking throwing £££ in mental health care and job coaches would be throwing good money after bad, maybe we should just slash benefits, give them a very basic package and then if they have the impetus they can find a job and improve things for themselves.

The taxpayer is tired. I’m tired. I’ve worked since I was 18. The streets in our town are full of potholes, our bins get taken less and less regularly, my kids’ school asks for basic items like cutlery because all the money goes on SEN. There’s talk of closing our library to fund yet more school transport, the public toilets have been locked up for good. I’m not in a position to feel benevolent toward anyone else until I feel I have an acceptable quality of life for my own children, and right now I’m not feeling that.

I expect a flaming for this, but I stand by it.

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Just imagine how less than ‘benevolent’ you would feel if your children were disabled and someone launched into a similar rant aimed at you. That’s the reality.

sharkysharks · 18/03/2025 18:01

Someone on LBC just phoned in & said as a couple they bring in 7k a month but both get PIP because of autism/adhd. How is that sustainable?

Wildflowers99 · 18/03/2025 18:02

sharkysharks · 18/03/2025 18:01

Someone on LBC just phoned in & said as a couple they bring in 7k a month but both get PIP because of autism/adhd. How is that sustainable?

What. The. Fuck

sharkysharks · 18/03/2025 18:02

If you are disabled you are disabled, no buts FACT. How is means testing it appropriate, basically claiming some truly disabled aren't....

But there is a difference between using a wheelchair & having adhd surely?

Justsayit123 · 18/03/2025 18:02

Someone has just been on the news to say they get £7k a month plus £400 for therapy as they have autism and said. FFS, £7k a month is ridiculous. I’m not saying they are not issues but £7k a month is ridiculous.

Wildflowers99 · 18/03/2025 18:03

Rosscameasdoody · 18/03/2025 18:01

Just imagine how less than ‘benevolent’ you would feel if your children were disabled and someone launched into a similar rant aimed at you. That’s the reality.

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I am disabled and I don’t expect anyone else to care about me more than they care about their own family.

CentralLimit · 18/03/2025 18:03

TheWombatleague · 18/03/2025 17:45

What? I'm close to retiring on a healthy pension after having a fairly stellar, if short, academic career. My only ambition is to see a better future for the people of this country.

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Same - I've had a successful career, am comfortably above average in terms of my own wealth and have never claimed PIP. The difference between people like @Longsummerdays25 and people who oppose them is not success - it's our unwillingness to submit to vanity, try to identify with the super rich, and punch down instead of facing the true and evidenced threats to our society.

Dideon · 18/03/2025 18:03

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 15:00

She is one of the 0.1% of PIP recipients who commit fraud,

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Why do you keep quoting that figure ?

Simplynotsimple · 18/03/2025 18:03

Wildflowers99 · 18/03/2025 17:58

Yes I would.

I used to believe in the old socialism, ‘from each according to his means, to each according to their needs’.

But that was when needs were people disabled from working in a mine, or people with Down Syndrome, or people with amputations. Now ‘needs’ means nebulous things like sensory requirements, something to do with executive function, people with social anxiety… things you can’t really grasp, and far too many of them.

There seems to be a developing myth that some people are special and wired differently and deserve to be on benefits for life, because they’re just not like everyone who works.

I don’t believe that there aren’t jobs to fit somebody whatever their mental profile. But I feel like whatever is suggested or done to help these people, there will always be some kind of reason as to why they can’t do it, and we ‘just don’t understand’. I’m on the verge of thinking throwing £££ in mental health care and job coaches would be throwing good money after bad, maybe we should just slash benefits, give them a very basic package and then if they have the impetus they can find a job and improve things for themselves.

The taxpayer is tired. I’m tired. I’ve worked since I was 18. The streets in our town are full of potholes, our bins get taken less and less regularly, my kids’ school asks for basic items like cutlery because all the money goes on SEN. There’s talk of closing our library to fund yet more school transport, the public toilets have been locked up for good. I’m not in a position to feel benevolent toward anyone else until I feel I have an acceptable quality of life for my own children, and right now I’m not feeling that.

I expect a flaming for this, but I stand by it.

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Of course you’ll stand by it, you’ve shielded yourself in so much ignorance that cannot be penetrated by facts. But we get the gist - ‘I wish the people with disabilities that I can’t see would just be hidden away like in the good old days so I can pretend they don’t exist and they stop being put in schools and taking away from my normal kids’.