To be gleeful that most of us were right

[Wranglestar]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/adding-vat-to-private-school-fees-has-had-no-obvious-impact-on-state-sector-applications-390546/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2ATdaVlNkJsbtC-KizuW4Fw41obnpvezxnFv4IAFwzJPHXmU90Awr5eqAaem9tMIsn9I0vHSC4jrdYONIA#0rd9makyd4264nstc4us9j77yk5kaoswtLondon Economic

And that private schools has had no impact on state school places. The rich have simply - paid more. Excellent news!

I never thought it would have a huge impact where I am but thought there would be some however I actually know more people choosing private then I did in previous years. I do live in SW London & a lot try for grammar so if they don't get that many chose private, I also know a few who didn't get a grammar place but secured a bursary/scholarship to private. 2 parents in one of my dc class are moving to private in Sept (yr 4 & below). They were always going private for secondary but worry about securing a place for yr 7 so want the security of getting in earlier.

I don't think we can afford private secondary whereas pre covid we were considering it, not just because of the.VAT but fee increases have increased massively & then just COL.

mainly with families not going private and buying houses in good catchments instead.

House prices near me haven't changed that much, probably losing money when you account for inflation but the London market is definitely hit by affordability in many areas.

I think you'll find there's plenty of evidence to show exactly that, 'FFS'.

The bigger picture is that the UK economy will not benefit from them paying taxes into a society which is full of "gleeful" idiots who sadly have helped drag the UK down to the depths it is now in. The UK is going to really struggle going forward and this attitude exemplifies the reason why

The UK is struggling because we never recovered from 08, governments and companies have not invested in the young or employees. Wage stagnation plus intergenerational inequality re housing (fuelled by low interest rates) & an ageing population. Nothing to do with someone celebrating VAT on school fees....

The impact of ever there is one is was never going to be instant it’ll be long term as in the next group of pre school kids who haven’t entered education yet

wouldn’t be crowing just yet

What is this on mumsnet just now ? Whattodo12e
is perfectly right. There is loads of evidence.

@hazelnutvanillalatte so the VAT policy has only just been introduced but already you know multiple families who have moved house into a different catchment area rather than go private as a result?
That seems .... Unlikely

The impact of ever there is one is was never going to be instant it’ll be long term as in the next group of pre school kids who haven’t entered education yet

Birth rates have fallen significantly too so there will also be less dc to go to school.

Yes, most people plan ahead for their children? Both reception-age, and those who were planning to send their kids to private for secondary. Don't know what world you live in where that 'seems........unlikely.'

@Wranglestar please rest in your bed of happiness that my autistic child has to move schools. Seeing as they had to leave their local rural high school due to appalling bullying private was the only option and we every penny we had (and borrowed quite a few we don’t) to make it happen. In September they will show up in the figures moving back to state education, and most likely in NHS MH waiting figures to. We know others in the same position.
Enjoy your glee over SEND kids distress.
I enjoy the fact my DC would never be so callous.
Have a look at this video.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02KrHXQ1FVYsn2v6V5AeSykvzh1R1pRSWt1NgUX8BketA8BmyAur719pFcyLZWMc2ql&id=100044466578232

Here’s the John Cleese video link on YouTube. It’s worth thinking about
d

Yes, most people plan ahead for their children? Both reception-age, and those who were planning to send their kids to private for secondary. Don't know what world you live in where that 'seems........unlikely.'

tbf we did exactly the same in the younger years despite not ruling out private. Most families consider catchments.

That’s rubbish. I teach in pre prep school and a number of children have already left, with more giving notice for September. Many children from our nursery, who would usually go into our Reception, have have opted to go to state school, so I think the impact is yet to come…

Not surprised about what? As pp have said it’s too early for crowing articles and threads.

We are moving to Finland in 15 months time and my daughter will be attending an IB school in English.

@Wranglestar apologies if I've missed it but so far I haven't seen you respond to any of the posters who are telling you their individual story of how this policy has affected their child..SEN kids being pulled out and put back in a system that has harmed them or parents going into enormous debt to avoid that. Would you care to respond to those? Explain your "glee" in that context?

Purely anecdata I know but I sit on PX panels and from the last 20 or so I did only 1 had parents who lived together

what is a PX panel?

Pupil exclusion? I’m guessing here!

Gleeful. Really?

They still aren't taxed enough in my opinion.

Sorry, yes its an exclusion panel.
So for what used to be called Expulsion

Of course that doesn't mean that there aren't many many DC achieving well and/or sticking to even basic standards of behaviour but it is true that virtually all the ones who are at risk of PX that I see have parents who are not together. They usually have no or an unsuitable/sporadic father

If you are ideologically opposed to private schools full stop and would ban them tomorrow, how do you think that would help the state school system and help poorer children in it, when there would be exactly the same amount of money in the education budget?

Schools would need to absorb the 7% of children who currently have the 'pushy middle class parents' who privately educate them. Do you not think they will use their money and their ambition to make sure they monopolise the best schools in the best areas? There are roughly half a million British kids in UK private schools right now. That's the equivalent of 500 new schools each accommodating 1000 pupils that will be needed, if everyone woke up tomorrow and decided they'd grant you your wish for equity and fairness. Maybe a few less after you've forced people to take places in the failing, undersubscribed schools, except that Ottilie and Orlando won't be going to one of those, will they? Their parents will be buying a house in the leafy catchment of a super-selective grammar.

Where is the money for that coming from? What people like you fail to see is that whether it gives an advantage to children of well off parents or not, the existence of the private school system in this country actually does the department of education an enormous favour and saves it an absolute fucking fortune.

Exactly.
They also haven't responded to the several comments stating that the measure of this policies success or failure isn't numbers of children in private vs state, it's whether it has any positive impact on quality of state education, as that was the stated 'aim' of this policy. What they are measuring and so 'gleeful' about is actually completely irrelevant.

I could maybe get behind this policy if I could see, in concrete practical measurable (not ideological) terms how it would improve the education of disadvantaged children. But the only way that has potentially been suggested is 'if more sharp elbowed middle class well off parents have children in state schools it will force them them to improve'.
Which is the biggest pile of BS I ever heard. Its extremely insulting to hard working teachers, implying they are not already doing their best, and extremely patronising to the 'working class' families already in state, that they apparently don't care enough about their children's education to try to improve it themselves, they need 'posho's' to come in to save their poor little children. Ridiculous!

If, in five years, the Labour government can point to concrete examples of smaller class sizes in state due to more teachers, a falling number of SEN kids on the absence roster and shorter CAMHS waiting times as a direct result of this policy, I'll applaud it. I'm happy to wait and see but I'm fairly damn sure none of the above will happen without a general rise in taxation raising closer to the 15 billion that was estimated as needed after COVID to get schools back up to scratch. Also, it doesn't matter how much you pay, you will not fully staff all schools whilst underlying behaviour issues are still so prevalent and that starts with admitting that lots of people are pretty terrible parents. No government will do that.