To be gleeful that most of us were right

[Wranglestar]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/adding-vat-to-private-school-fees-has-had-no-obvious-impact-on-state-sector-applications-390546/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2ATdaVlNkJsbtC-KizuW4Fw41obnpvezxnFv4IAFwzJPHXmU90Awr5eqAaem9tMIsn9I0vHSC4jrdYONIA#0rd9makyd4264nstc4us9j77yk5kaoswtLondon Economic

And that private schools has had no impact on state school places. The rich have simply - paid more. Excellent news!

I’ve come across quite a few people lecturing others about how they would never use private school on moral grounds. Funnily enough, they’ve had a change of heart when they have had a change in financial circumstances. One unpleasant woman lectured me on my decision not to use the local state school (which I had kept quiet until specifically asked). After a few years at that state school, and after the family came into some money, she was happy to discard those “morals” and promptly put her multiple children into private school. Most decent parents will do anything to give their child the education they perceive as best, be that by paying for it, moving house, going to church, applying for selective schools, or simply by choosing a certain school over another.

My DH adamant that there was no need for Private schools. He did well at a Comp and he didn't see the value of Private education.
His Comp was 1 year out of being a Grammar when he was there and it was in an affluent area.
Visits to our local State Secondary and 2 local Private schools changed his mind completely.
Anyone who send their child to a crap school purely for idealogical reasons deserves to be judged far harder than any parent who opts for private school

You sound like you have an incredibly large chip on your shoulder.

Quite a few children from my kids' school have now left. I'm sure you're delighted they had their education disrupted mid year and were torn away from their friendship groups.

They did this in Greece. It failed there.

I work in teacher training. Still waiting to see where the promised 6500 new teachers will come from.

Anyway, yes, we will pay more, but the knock on is that we'll give less voluntarily.

I’d love to see you say this to the faces of the parents of working class black and mixed-race boys who absolutely didn’t want their sons to go to one particular school (my local secondary) in my bit of inner city London. No, they didn’t go private (couldn’t afford to) but they did what they could for the benefit of their boys.

Revolting, are they?

Absolutely. We live in a grammar/ 11+ area, local grammer is excellent, local comp is notorious for bad behaviour, fights etc. I don't like to believe gossip, so went to visit, and within 1 hour heard racist abuse, sexual abuse,saw a child smoking and several classrooms with poor behaviour. We visited the grammar, students showed each other and teachers respect.

Ideologically I don't believe in tutoring to get through the 11+, it goes against the whole original purpose of grammer schools. Am I going to do it to give my child the best possible chance, of course I am!

Very true. And Sweden is now having major issues with their education system - probably because they're not that homogenous anymore so more pressures on the system.

But that is irrelevant. The purpose of the policy was (supposedly) to improve state provision. The only measure of the success or failure of this policy is, has state education improved? Of course, there will be the "it's too early to know' brigade, but how long should we expect to wait to see the impact.
Funding, in real terms, is less than it was when Labour came into power, not more. State education is getting worse, not better. I strongly believe in state education, but after my last governors meeting and seeing how much damage has been done in the past year alone, I do fear for the future.

Yes. They are. And yes I’d say it to their faces and have.

And I grew up and was educated in ‘inner city London’ (ooh how scary). As are my children. At state schools. In some of the poorest areas in London. Black/working-class children at private schools in ‘inner London’ are no less at risk of street violence and/or grooming by county lines than children at state schools as this mostly doesn’t happen in school anyway. Frankly you are talking out your arse about issues you have zero experience or expertise in. But this is mumsnet.

You seem to be a bit confused as @Ddakji says the boys in question did NOT go to Private schools.
But don't let facts get in the way of your rant

Then you are not the nice, kind, progressive person you think you are.

That poster just likes to lie and lie and lie, she’s done it multiple times across this thread.

I’ve not lied at all. You simply don’t like my views. Good. I don’t like yours.

Not confused at all. You asked if I’d say my views to the faces of black people/working class people who had different opinions to me. Yes I would. And have. And do all the time. These sort of discussions are literally every day in my job. Why would I not say my views because someone is black? Or working class? Especially if they think private school will protect their child from systemic racism/classism/risks of being in a high risk locale (whether they send their kids private or not).

@Applesonthelawn
*And I have lived in Scandinavia for years so don't really need to read up on how they do things in Finland thanks for the tip though."

If you've lived in Scandinavia for years you presumably know that Finland isn't in Scandinavia.........

See, you’re lying again. You can’t even see when you’re doing it, it’s so ingrained.

very confused, I asked no such thing

hmm.. i think they are, as the after tax cost is about the mean salary in the uk, for one child?

I disagree with your idea of rich. For me people that have to work for a living aren’t rich.

The reality is that there will never be equality in the education system. If you abolished private schools as the OP wishes to do, you’d get even more variation among the state sector based on demographics and geography. An interesting measure would be to look at the annual income if each school PTA and I suspect that would give some illuminating findings.

Our outstanding state primary can’t afford glue sticks or reading scheme books. It’s dependent on parental donations and the Head has become close to asking for a set donation each year but desperately doesn’t want to. The school is most definitely being propped up by the PTA and parental donations of time and money. That is not the sign of a well-functioning education system in a rich country. Punishing private schools won’t fix the state system. Only significant investment and tackling the woeful Sen provision will do that.

And if they are on a 100% bursary?

Or a government MDS scheme?

Or fees are being paid by a combo of parents and grandparents?

Or they're a chorister where the cathedral picks up the tab?

Where’s the lie? Read your post ‘I’d like to see you say that to the faces of Black…revolting are they?’ I answered your post that ended in a question. You asked (ok it was a question in the form of rhetoric ‘i’d like to see you say…’) a question and I responded, at no point did I ‘lie’. Perhaps you should have gone to private school…or a better one.

Obviously that is a different kettle of fish! And tax implications obviously also differenet. I don't think last comment from you really contributes anything to the conversation. "what if private schools were free, not everyone would have a larger than average income"

hmmm.... so if you earn 25k, or 500k, per annum? both persons are not rich?

The quote history is there, laid out on a plate for you. For a start, you are lying about replying to me when you replied to @Hoppinggreen. You’re so tangled up in your lies you don’t know who you’re speaking to and who said what any more.

Take a breath. Your rage at people who did what you didn’t, put their children front and centre before any political or abstract ideology, is clouding your ability to put forward an argument coherently.