To agree with Wes Streeting's statement that MH issues are overdiagnosed?

[Locutus2000]

Pretty controversial stuff.

Who decides?

@Gloriia - Of course we all have to adapt to social environments but for ND people who struggle with social communication, this is a another layer of complexity and difficulty. Add in the sensory processing difficulties, these people are vulnerable to burn out/breakdown which can take months to recover from. And for some like my son, this can spiral into a MH crisis. As for everyone seems to have a ND, that's probably because more people are talking about it giving the impression that everyone has it. They don't but we are playing catch up as many people, particularly girls and women, went undiagnosed and unsupported for decades.

And then you have the trauma from crisis which occur more if there is no diagnosis, treatment or support. It’s layer on layer. My dc now need
expensive treatment for CPTSD caused by their journey before they can start on the MH.They have us to fight and support them whilst clinging onto jobs but other young people aren’t so lucky.

It’s a false economy and discovering ND when the shit is really hitting the fan is really unhelpful and causes yet more wasted expense ie people having wrong or unadapted treatment.

I think we are under diagnosing and often treating people wrongly because of it.
Despite everyone thinking DD is autistic (it never occurred to me but now it makes sense) it’s been a long road to get a diagnosis. It’s not easy at all. Especially as she masks so well.
So instead she has been treated for anxiety and the the therapy offered by CAHMS actually made her worse. At one point she was offered medication but someone from the doctors told us to refuse as it’s also counterproductive with being autistic.

saying this she now has friends who have decided they are autistic because they feel unhappy sometimes.

i do have a friend who had severe anxiety issues for years, on multiple meds. He’s turned his life around and had a good career and he’s a serious hill walker. Previously he spent all weekend in bed eating junk. I think like some people, he just needed structure and activity. I don’t think all people are cured like that but I think some could improve their lives the same way.

Sorry to hear about your DC; I can relate as my son became traumatised and suicidal after successive failures from both health services and education. I recognise that I'm fortunate in being able to support him though its had an impact on my own health now. Its not his fault but its due to the struggle caring for him without any support. I will probably be doing this to the day I die now and I also have my autistic daughter to care for as well. Reading this thread and some of the assumptions on here is so upsetting to me; we have genuine ADHD and autism and other co-occuring difficulties to manage in my family. But the suggestion that we're fake or the worried well is deeply offensive.

This, I hear you!!!!

And if Wes Streeting actually talked to family groups re the reality he may just save some money.

But no he chooses to use ignorant inflammatory rhetoric that appeals to the frothing keyboard warriors who have little experience of the hell that is supporting children and young people with mental illness .

What cheque does it come with? Another comment lifted straight from the Daily Mail.

Autism is diagnosed after years of assessment by highly specialised medical professionals, who have many years of training. Nothing to do with pharmaceutical companies, HTH

Do you understand that some ND people are non verbal. Some have issues with mobility. Many cannot cope in mainstream school. Many are in special schools. How are they not disabled?

A diagnosis/label when incorrectly given, provides an entitlement to many benefits that otherwise wouldn't be given. It provides an excuse for poor behaviour and assaults. It provides a lazy parenting and shifts blame. Society is a lot more beneficial if you have a label attached to you these days.

I'm not talking about the majority of people who actually do need them and who are suffering, before anyone comes at me.

I have seen hundreds of threads on here where not just children's behaviour is always labelled as either ND/MH related but also adults. A child who tantrums because they cant play on their computers are asked if they are ND, a person who assaults another is supposed to be risk assessed on whether they additional needs to excuse that behaviour, an adult who is withdrawing from their partner due to an affair is now being labelled depressed rather than a shitty person.

Many times I have witnessed in public and online a parent saying "oh don't mind x they are probably ADHD or ND" to excuse poor behaviour. Many are valid yes, but the more people are being told to accept this behaviour from everyone the more they are creating a bigger problem.

What do pharmaceutical companies have to do with this? This isn’t the US. There aren’t millions of kids taking Adderall…

Ok, yes this is an oversight, apologies.

Well, yes they can. As with the example I gave. As I understand it from the psychiatric nurse I mentioned, a change to legislation and high level policy had been made (I will double check this the next time I see them), removing alcoholism as a recognised mental health disorder, as it was not deemed ‘cost effective’. A change to legislation would have been made by politicians. Which is why it is now almost impossible for a person with mental health problems and addiction to get a dual diagnosis.

I take the point though, and I do wonder how many people truly have a mental health disorder. I would say that there are a lot of people who are unhappy with life, and you know what, it’s completely understandable. So many have precarious jobs, crap pay, housing insecurity, experience loneliness and isolation etc. Then, they understandably feel anxious or depressed, but it is a result of their environment and circumstances, rather than a disorder. Going to a GP, who may just prescribe medication as a sticking plaster in the short term.

Disability benefits are paid based on substantial evidence that you cannot complete certain tasks. You do not get paid anything based on diagnosis.

A parent cannot demand a diagnosis. Forms are sent to both the parent and childcare setting. Both forms from the parent and childcare need to agree that the child is struggling substantially. They then wait years for an assessment from a psychiatrist.

A child that has tantrums would not meet the threshold for an assessment. You are misinformed.

I really notice this with teens. They have the vocabulary around MH now, which is great, but any uncomfortable feeling is anxiety, depression, over stimulation etc.

Life can be overwhelming for all
of us at times but that doesn’t equate to a MH issue. I agree that there needs to be a focus on resilience and helping people deal with discomfort, stress, worry etc. I am a former MH nursery so know that MH issues can be profoundly disabling but a lot of what people complain of now is part of life’s ups and downs.

I think this is a complex issue - I will go into work come what may but for others they take time off at the slightest thing. Some of it is almost a personal thing in terms of the level of discomfort an individual is prepared to live with. I have a colleague who is off ALOT and I can’t help that I’ve grown resentful of it. It impacts on me and our other colleagues. It often coincides with school holiday and involves often vague symptoms that can’t be objectively verified. It’s really impacted on the rest of us because she goes home early every day, says she can’t work in the afternoons etc but is applying for jobs that would require her to do exactly that 🤔

In regards to the MH side rather than the ND side, around here I have known several people who have played the assessments and been awarded the benefits. Not the big ones like PIP or DLA but the Disability element on UC for example, isn't actually that hard to get, all you need to do to trigger an assessment is provide 3 sick notes and even then you don't need evidence other than saying you've been to the doctors (sick note proves this) and are on a wait list for treatment or something.
There is even small groups of people in the local whetherspoons who coach people in what to say and how to act in these assessments.

This is the issue I have with this system not the fact of those who have had to fight for assessments and treatment. It is these people who quite rightly actually need these and it's the people mentioned above who are not only preventing this but also causing the stigma and ripple effect to weed out the scammers.

Your previous post referred to children and lazy parenting, that is why I believed you was referring to ND . I do not believe that there are large groups of parents receiving the disability element of UC because their child has anxiety or depression.

Pharma make money selling drugs. Reps flog them to private & NHS. Drugs are prescribed by doctors for diagnosed illnesses.

Working for a couple of these firms briefly in the 90s was quite the eye opener. (Amgen and Napp in Cambridge Science Park.)

This.

I don't think people fake that kind of mental illness.

Usually it's depression.

But many many aren't non verbal in special schools.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record no one disputes that ND and MH issues exist.

The point is those very minimally affected are taking away services and funds from those seriously affected. Everyone is masking with adhd it seems nowadays.

If you have adhd or anxiety and manage independently day to day then there is no way you should receive pip for example which seems to be the way they are going with the reforms.

I was replying to a poster stating that ADHD and Autism are not disabilities.

If you have ADHD or anxiety and manage independently day to day then you will not qualify for PIP under the current rules anyway.

If you have ADHD or anxiety and manage independently in everyday life you wouldn’t be entitled to PIP, so i‘m not sure what your point it.

No my reference to the parenting, etc was to those who label their children in a way to excuse their behaviour and/or lack of parenting. Whether or not these end up pushing for assessments or benefits is another point, a lot of people now are throwing these labels around like they are air. Everything is a MH illness or a ND now. Common general feelings and reactions are a sign of ND or MH issues.

We are in or atleast heading into a society where violence is excused by this, where no one can be sad or excited anymore because it means there's something wrong with you, where everyone wants entitlement to benefits to include them and their needs, where people should expect to be shouted and screamed at because that's now "normal" and where everyone is medicated and seeking resources for illnesses a percentage likely don't even have.

But we see it all the time that people read up on the descriptors and make their symptoms fit. Hard to disprove that is why hopefully the descriptors will change and those assessing will have more guidelines.