To agree with Wes Streeting's statement that MH issues are overdiagnosed?

[Locutus2000]

Pretty controversial stuff.

Who decides?

Well that might be the case where you are but it's not like that here. I'm not just talking about taking up MH service resources, it's ALL resources that should be available to EVERYONE!!

So since addiction is linked to MH issues and is a "disease" i'll use this example. In the past 2 weeks my drug addict neighbour has had 10 ambulances to his door within 20 minutes because he was spaced out on drugs. Whilst a distraught 15 year old lad had to be talked down from a motorway bridge and monitored by the general public for an hour and a half until a response team to arrive at the scene. It was going to take 3 hours for an ambulance to arrive to a shop when an elderly man started having a stoke until someone decided to take him to the hospital himself.

How is that not taking resources from those actually in need?

*ETA- no they aren't taking away resources completely but at times they are causing significant delays to people who may actually need urgent treatment to save their lives.

@NapT1me Do you understand now?

Could it be that he would like to see less diagnoses because the NHS doesn’t have the capacity to provide a meaningful support? It does make them look rather bad. I know an older psychiatric nurse who told me that alcoholism was removed as a recognised mental illness because it wasn’t cost effective.

I'm on quite a high dose of antipsychotics but can go years without seeing anyone for my mental health. I have to fight to get a meds review.

We are actually under diagnosed in terms of ND in the country. The stats for predicted levels of ADHD fall below how many are actually diagnosed per population. In the US they are above their predicted levels. I am pretty sick of some of the headlines and damaging statements out there. We are not over diagnosing in this country. Yes more people have got diagnosed but that is due to more education and understanding of conditions. Diagnosis is not quick or easy. It’s positive that people are coming forward. You say you think ‘very few people are probably neurotypical’. How do you define ND? Again a throw away very damaging statement.

A drug addict taking up that much in the way of ambulances is not a well person and needs help.
Some heartless people would say the 15 year old on the bridge is lacking resilience.

A lot of ambulance delays are due to ambulances being tied up at A&E departments.

Yep, I have a friend who has Bipolar 1, and is on just one med for it. She only sees anyone from a MH team when she is acutely unwell... and she can go years between episodes. I don't know anyone who would say that bipolar 1 is a "mild" illness.

Can I ask genuinely - how is ADHD a vague label? Do you understand the diagnostic process for ADHD? If you are talking about people who throw comments around such as ‘it’s my OCD I love tidying’ or ‘I’m a bit adhd’ because they’ve seen something on TikTok then yes I get you. But please - a proper ADHD diagnosis is anything but vague. It has to come from a psychiatrist (same medical training as a consultant/surgeon). There is so much misinformation out there regarding ADHD. It’s damaging to those of us with proper NHS diagnosis.

I’d love to know on what research findings his statement is based. Or is it just a ‘feeling’ he has. That he wants to base policy on.
it’s just more of the endless ableism of the new government. It’s shocking.

I am far from heartless. Thank you.

Maybe if 15 year old was able to access support at an earlier stage then he would of had the resilience and tools to not reach that stage. But yeah, GPs only give same day appointments that are gone by the time you even reach someone to talk to, ambulances are too busy with addicts and their dodgy gear, MH services have years long waiting lists because of "covid" and the police are no where to be seem.... so where is he supposed to get his resilience from when no body who can actually help you gives a shit or even has capacity to see you?

I didn't say you were heartless. But there have been countless posts on here and other threads about how young people are simply not resilient enough. They would be the type that are held up in traffic due to the poor teen on the bridge, and shaking their head about it all.
I have been that person on a bridge (well, it was a car park) and a man was on the ground shouting all sorts at me because he was not allowed to leave.

I agree with this. Many young people really have no idea about life in earlier times, when people lived the way they wouldn't dream of living. Do they really think that life in the war years, or the depression years, was a bed of roses? I really can't understand how ignorant some people are.

I'm not in the UK, we all have to pay to visit a dentist here, and a GP (a subsidised amount, but it still has to be paid) and we cope - and it's just as hard to see a GP here.

I've just been for a long walk and passed a lot of very nice, very large, and very expensive houses, and then arrived back to my rented flat (and I will be renting for the rest of my life). So what? Am I envious, no I'm not, there have always been those with much more wealth than I've ever had, it's no big deal. I don't believe life owes me anything.

I also don't believe that work, for many, is any more stressful than it was in the past. I worked in administration my whole life, no-one ever expected me to do anything out of work hours, and I would say I worked harder in the early part of my working life than I did in the latter years.

As for social media, it's easy to avoid that - just keep off it! No-one is forcing anyone onto social media, it's a choice. Stop looking for excuses.

I do get your point. Like I said earlier in the thread, there is no happy medium here. In a time where MH is fully starting to be an open topic of discussion and become less stigmatised, it's hard to try and police the minority of society who use it as an excuse for general, without affecting or shaming the majority who do really suffer.

Its not just MH either, it's absolutely everything. All public services, poor behaviour and in some cases now unwillingness to actually parent, blame is appointed rather than taking responsibility, diagnosis are sought rather than building/teaching resilience and coping skills, being forced to work just to survive rather than to have a decent life. I just feel that at this rate things are only going to get worse. Honestly our society and all systems are broken.

Yeah, they are. I think there are a few reasons for it. One is that there has been a weird trajectory in some types of disorders or diagnoses where the diagnostic criteria has begun to overlap normal feelings/development etc. Basically, they keep widening the scope of the diagnosis, I think because people, including doctors, lose sight of what makes something a disorder.

MH has also become the new "back pain" among those who are taking the piss. Twenty-five years ago people who wanted to get off work or to get special benefits of some kind would fake back pain, which was difficult to show wasn't there and could easily be faked. For a number of years quite a few people were successful with this, but eventually the medical profession began to crack down. Now people like this will fake some kind of MH condition, because it's basically impossible for the doctor to prove the symptoms are faked.

And - I think there are quite a few people who have come to believe their normal struggles and personality traits are medical problems, and this in itself causes them more stress and problems.

It's also true that there are other people who aren't getting a diagnosis who should, or who aren't supported with their issues (though I think the fact that so many people are in the system contributes to that.)

Not that ND is a mental health condition.

The stigma of MH has not gone. Not at all. Trying having a psychotic illness and see how stigmatised you feel.

Anxiety and depression is more talked about, granted, but don't fool yourself into thinking the stigma of MH is a thing of the past.

Blimey, I think I can see from reading this thread why when I was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder (used to be Multiple Personality Disorder) my clinician told me not to tell anyone as they wouldn't understand.
I'm very fortunate that I have a supportive boss who understands that some times when I am stressed I contact them as another identity, and they have ignored emails where I have resigned for example. Otherwise i wouldn't be able to work. But most of the time I cope just fine in work. I don't need to take any medication.
But I am supposed to have intensive talking therapy twice a week. And apparently I could be cured in 3 to 7 years.
Is it over diagnosed? I don't know, but I posted on here asking if anyone else has it and had no positive replies. So hopefully not. But it isn't something I was born with, it developed due to horrendous CSA when I was very small. Maybe I should be more resilient. Well I tried that. I guess that is where the DID comes from. Keep creating a new identity each time you are abused and forget what happened to you before hand. But I finally broke completely after leaving an abusive marriage, and spent 3 days in a dissociated trance that no one could get me out of and I was totally unresponsive. Maybe if someone had taken notice of my dissociative symptoms when I was collapsing as a teenager I might have been easier to solve than I am now after a life time of abuse.

This! 👏👏

Giving the diagnosis is only partially helpful for anxiety and depression. with some constructive counselling. let young people know that it is part of normal life especially in teenage years. Let them know it won't last forever.
However why do thye need money from PIP ?
I have physical disability so need a wheelchair. Plus lots of other aids. I need the money to buy the equipment.
what do people spend the money on? I know of young adults using their PIP money for their drink and drug consumption. They won't work. it all really pees me off the young need help they are not getting.

The field needs stigma to survive. The moment you give a label is the moment you use stigma.

Stigma will never go as the field is built on stigma. That is the reason it exists.

I hold the opinion that modern life is awful for our mental health. COL, screens, 5 day working week, 2 parents working FT jobs to make ends meet, destruction of nature etc, etc.

No wonder we are all are depressed.But now we are being told our MH disn't matter. Great.

Perhaps if streeting thought about the root causes of this we would be getting somewhere.

Don’t have anything to look forward to?? Wow… I mean what a ridiculous comment.

Well there are record numbers living at home because rent let alone mortgages are way out of their league, the world is on fire and not many countries seem to be doing much about it,it’s really hard to get first jobs ( even doctors and nurses are struggling) year in industry degrees are having to hop over the year in industry because they’re so hard to get, they won’t get a state pension, fascism seems to be spreading, even the world’s biggest democracy is going down the pan….. all related to them 24/7 on phones that most of life seems to hinge on alongside their every move.

And we wonder why there is an increase in anxiety.

This, but no.

It’s a big case of sticking fingers in ears much is incredibly be it short sited as it won’t disappear.

Complete rubbish. Autism and adhd diagnoses are hard to get. Children are presenting at school with more SENs it’s not imagined, the dept of education know that because teachers are telling them so.