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US democracy is about to die

260 replies

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 13:03

... So many indicators for this, the most recent is Trump calling for the DoJ to go after his enemies:

Dear American friends, I hope you find a peaceful way out of this. As for us here, I can only hope we keep the contagion at bay.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIfD6vMtmj0

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HangryLilacGoose · 16/03/2025 17:22

ExtraOnions · 16/03/2025 17:17

Democracy will always be under threat in the US, as Judges are political appointments. You need an Independant judiciary if democracy is ever to be protected.

Although I agree this was one of the flaws in their democracy, it hardly matters once the President starts ignoring court orders.

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 18:19

HangryLilacGoose · 16/03/2025 17:22

Although I agree this was one of the flaws in their democracy, it hardly matters once the President starts ignoring court orders.

Not good. This is forcing a constitutional crisis.

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YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:22

Democracy isn’t some fragile bird waiting to be caged it’s a beast that adapts, evolves, and devours those who underestimate it. Power shifts, leaders rise and fall, but the system endures because it was built to survive ambition, scandal, and even the occasional demagogue.

Now, some will argue that it all falls apart when a President starts ignoring court orders. But power is never absolute, and defiance breeds its own consequences. Presidents who play king soon find out that even the most stacked judiciary has limits and so does the patience of the people.

The beauty of democracy isn’t in its perfection it’s in its resilience. Let the doubters wring their hands; the republic stands, as it always has, unshaken by the tempests of politics

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 18:29

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:22

Democracy isn’t some fragile bird waiting to be caged it’s a beast that adapts, evolves, and devours those who underestimate it. Power shifts, leaders rise and fall, but the system endures because it was built to survive ambition, scandal, and even the occasional demagogue.

Now, some will argue that it all falls apart when a President starts ignoring court orders. But power is never absolute, and defiance breeds its own consequences. Presidents who play king soon find out that even the most stacked judiciary has limits and so does the patience of the people.

The beauty of democracy isn’t in its perfection it’s in its resilience. Let the doubters wring their hands; the republic stands, as it always has, unshaken by the tempests of politics

Yes. But complacency can be fatal. There is a cancer spreading right now and it's aggressive. It would be good to see swift effective action to safeguard democracy. Right now it looks like the horde is on a rampage and practically unchecked.

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YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:31

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 18:29

Yes. But complacency can be fatal. There is a cancer spreading right now and it's aggressive. It would be good to see swift effective action to safeguard democracy. Right now it looks like the horde is on a rampage and practically unchecked.

Cancer? Please. Democracy has survived wars, corruption, assassinations, and enough scandals to make the devil blush. It doesn’t wither at the first sign of a tumour it adapts, fights back, and outlives the ones who think they can bring it down.

Swift action? Of course. But panic is the enemy of strategy. The so-called horde may be loud, but noise is not power. Real power lies in institutions, in laws, in the slow, grinding gears of the system. If you think democracy is on its deathbed, you underestimate just how deep its roots go. The republic doesn’t fall because of a single man or a fleeting movement. It endures because it was built to withstand them.

HangryLilacGoose · 16/03/2025 18:32

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:22

Democracy isn’t some fragile bird waiting to be caged it’s a beast that adapts, evolves, and devours those who underestimate it. Power shifts, leaders rise and fall, but the system endures because it was built to survive ambition, scandal, and even the occasional demagogue.

Now, some will argue that it all falls apart when a President starts ignoring court orders. But power is never absolute, and defiance breeds its own consequences. Presidents who play king soon find out that even the most stacked judiciary has limits and so does the patience of the people.

The beauty of democracy isn’t in its perfection it’s in its resilience. Let the doubters wring their hands; the republic stands, as it always has, unshaken by the tempests of politics

Democracy requires an administration that respects the rule of law and the results of elections. The current US administration does neither. That's not to say that they cannot be displaced through some means other than voting or court order, but if those means become necessary, it is an acknowledgement that you are not currently living in a democracy.

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:34

HangryLilacGoose · 16/03/2025 18:32

Democracy requires an administration that respects the rule of law and the results of elections. The current US administration does neither. That's not to say that they cannot be displaced through some means other than voting or court order, but if those means become necessary, it is an acknowledgement that you are not currently living in a democracy.

Ah, but democracy is not defined by the character of one administration it’s defined by the system’s ability to correct itself. Leaders come and go, some with grace, others kicking and screaming, but the machinery of democracy grinds on.

If an administration defies the rule of law, the response isn’t to declare democracy dead it’s to use the very mechanisms built to restrain power. Elections, courts, legislatures, even the will of the people in the streets these are the antibodies of a democracy fighting off infection. If alternative means become necessary, it’s not proof that democracy has failed, but that it is in the process of defending itself. Democracy isn’t a static ideal; it’s a battlefield, and so long as the fight continues, it lives

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 18:34

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:31

Cancer? Please. Democracy has survived wars, corruption, assassinations, and enough scandals to make the devil blush. It doesn’t wither at the first sign of a tumour it adapts, fights back, and outlives the ones who think they can bring it down.

Swift action? Of course. But panic is the enemy of strategy. The so-called horde may be loud, but noise is not power. Real power lies in institutions, in laws, in the slow, grinding gears of the system. If you think democracy is on its deathbed, you underestimate just how deep its roots go. The republic doesn’t fall because of a single man or a fleeting movement. It endures because it was built to withstand them.

I wholeheartedly agree with you; I am a believer in democracy's resilience - but there are red flags right now that are there for everyone to see.
What do you think the opposition should be doing then? How will the institutions fight back right now, especially as the regime seems to be determined to ignore them?

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YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:36

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 18:34

I wholeheartedly agree with you; I am a believer in democracy's resilience - but there are red flags right now that are there for everyone to see.
What do you think the opposition should be doing then? How will the institutions fight back right now, especially as the regime seems to be determined to ignore them?

The opposition must do what it has always done when facing an administration that overreaches: use every tool available, relentlessly and without hesitation. The courts may be ignored today, but laws are not written in sand. Litigate everything, drag every overreach into the daylight, and make every legal maneuverer as costly as possible. Congress if it has the spine must use its power to investigate, obstruct, and, if necessary, shut down the very mechanisms that enable executive defiance.

Then there’s the public. The moment people believe the system is lost, it is. Mobilization, protest, pressure campaigns these are not just symbolic gestures. They are fuel for the institutions that still hold power. No regime, no matter how determined, survives if the people, the courts, and the opposition refuse to play along.

Democracy’s resilience isn’t just in its institutions it’s in the willingness of those who believe in it to fight tooth and nail to defend it. The question isn’t whether democracy will hold. It’s whether its defenders are willing to play as ruthlessly as its challengers

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 18:41

I know what you mean - it is an ongoing battle and to proclaim democracy about to die can come across as defeatist. I hear that. I just feel there's a bit too much apparent apathy among elected representatives who are not part of the MAGA inner circle, and considering the speed of everything, it is difficult not to feel impatient.

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YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:43

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 18:41

I know what you mean - it is an ongoing battle and to proclaim democracy about to die can come across as defeatist. I hear that. I just feel there's a bit too much apparent apathy among elected representatives who are not part of the MAGA inner circle, and considering the speed of everything, it is difficult not to feel impatient.

Impatience is a luxury for those who expect change to be handed to them. But power isn’t given it’s taken, shaped, wielded.

Apathy? Perhaps. Or maybe it’s the slow, deliberate calculation of those who know that battles are not won in a single charge but in the grind of persistence. The opposition may look sluggish, but don’t mistake stillness for surrender. The system is vast, and while some play the long game in backrooms and courtrooms, others fight in the streets and the media.

Democracy doesn’t crumble in an instant, and neither does resistance. It’s easy to feel that time is slipping away, that things move too fast. But in the end, power that burns too hot consumes itself. The trick isn’t just to resist it’s to outlast. And democracy? It has a hell of a track record of doing just that.

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 18:47

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:43

Impatience is a luxury for those who expect change to be handed to them. But power isn’t given it’s taken, shaped, wielded.

Apathy? Perhaps. Or maybe it’s the slow, deliberate calculation of those who know that battles are not won in a single charge but in the grind of persistence. The opposition may look sluggish, but don’t mistake stillness for surrender. The system is vast, and while some play the long game in backrooms and courtrooms, others fight in the streets and the media.

Democracy doesn’t crumble in an instant, and neither does resistance. It’s easy to feel that time is slipping away, that things move too fast. But in the end, power that burns too hot consumes itself. The trick isn’t just to resist it’s to outlast. And democracy? It has a hell of a track record of doing just that.

Every word you've just written highlights the gravity of the situation. I like to believe there's hope.

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HangryLilacGoose · 16/03/2025 18:51

@YourAmberPoet

Your posts are well written, as a call to action, and is absolutely the attitude those who resist attempts to scupper democracy must adopt.

But it does need to be borne in mind that various other countries, that were once democracies, have since become authoritarian states. Perhaps through the complacency you speak of.

"Dead" might be premature, but there is extremely good reason to think that the current administration cannot be removed at the ballot box.

You are right that this should not breed defeatism.

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:58

HangryLilacGoose · 16/03/2025 18:51

@YourAmberPoet

Your posts are well written, as a call to action, and is absolutely the attitude those who resist attempts to scupper democracy must adopt.

But it does need to be borne in mind that various other countries, that were once democracies, have since become authoritarian states. Perhaps through the complacency you speak of.

"Dead" might be premature, but there is extremely good reason to think that the current administration cannot be removed at the ballot box.

You are right that this should not breed defeatism.

Ah, but the difference between those fallen democracies and the United States is simple this system was built with teeth.

Other nations slipped because their foundations were weak, their institutions pliable, their people unwilling to do what was necessary. Here, power is tangled in a web of laws, courts, and a public that, when roused, is more dangerous than any despot’s ambition.

Complacency is a risk, sure. But so is panic. Fear hands power to those who would seize it. The real question isn’t whether democracy can fall it’s whether those who claim to defend it are willing to play as hard, as ruthless, and as relentless as those who seek to dismantle it. Because democracy doesn’t die when tyrants rise it dies when its defenders hesitate.

Maitri108 · 16/03/2025 19:06

Some people haven't heard of a constitutional takeover. Weimar Germany, Russia, Venezuela, Hungary are just some of the former democracies that elected dictators.

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 19:16

Maitri108 · 16/03/2025 19:06

Some people haven't heard of a constitutional takeover. Weimar Germany, Russia, Venezuela, Hungary are just some of the former democracies that elected dictators.

Ah, the old ‘elected dictator’ argument a favorite among those who think history is a prophecy rather than a lesson.

Yes, Weimar Germany, Russia, Venezuela, Hungary all nations that slid into authoritarianism through democratic means. But here’s what’s missing from that comparison: none of them had the same entrenched institutions, the same checks and balances, or the same deeply ingrained culture of political resistance as the United States.

Germany had a constitution barely a decade old when Hitler took power, riddled with loopholes. Russia never had a democratic tradition strong enough to withstand its old authoritarian reflexes. Venezuela was built on the shifting sands of oil wealth and populism. Hungary? A small state easily bent by the forces around it.

The United States is not a fragile post-war republic or a fledgling democracy still learning how to walk. It is a system designed to endure, to resist, to fight back. Leaders may try to grab the reins, but they will find democracy here is not so easily tamed.

The fear of a constitutional takeover is valid if you believe the game is already lost. But history is written by those who refuse to fold. And in America, the house always plays the long game.

HangryLilacGoose · 16/03/2025 19:17

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:58

Ah, but the difference between those fallen democracies and the United States is simple this system was built with teeth.

Other nations slipped because their foundations were weak, their institutions pliable, their people unwilling to do what was necessary. Here, power is tangled in a web of laws, courts, and a public that, when roused, is more dangerous than any despot’s ambition.

Complacency is a risk, sure. But so is panic. Fear hands power to those who would seize it. The real question isn’t whether democracy can fall it’s whether those who claim to defend it are willing to play as hard, as ruthless, and as relentless as those who seek to dismantle it. Because democracy doesn’t die when tyrants rise it dies when its defenders hesitate.

I disagree with your characterization of the strength of the US democracy. Most specifically, it notably lacks "teeth".

It has relied on Presidents' (and others) willingness to adhere to checks and balances and conventions, which Trump has demonstrated that he will not. There is little or nothing inherent in the US system that can contain a President that declines to be bound by it.

For example, if Trump loses in 2028 and challenges the election results at the Supereme Court and loses: what happens if Trump ignores the Court order and refuses to leave office? The court can send Marshals to arrest him, but the President still commands the military.

If violence (or the threat of it) becomes necessary to remove or force Trump (or any other president or official) to vacate office, that is not democracy. It is violence (or the threat of it) for the sake of protecting democracy.

The US's institutions are extremely pliable. Are its people? I fear they may be, lest they would not have re-elected Trump after the events of Jan 6. That said, if they are further tested, I genuinely hope that I'm proven wrong.

I do fear that you may be demonstrating some of the very complacency that your are warning against.

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 19:20

HangryLilacGoose · 16/03/2025 19:17

I disagree with your characterization of the strength of the US democracy. Most specifically, it notably lacks "teeth".

It has relied on Presidents' (and others) willingness to adhere to checks and balances and conventions, which Trump has demonstrated that he will not. There is little or nothing inherent in the US system that can contain a President that declines to be bound by it.

For example, if Trump loses in 2028 and challenges the election results at the Supereme Court and loses: what happens if Trump ignores the Court order and refuses to leave office? The court can send Marshals to arrest him, but the President still commands the military.

If violence (or the threat of it) becomes necessary to remove or force Trump (or any other president or official) to vacate office, that is not democracy. It is violence (or the threat of it) for the sake of protecting democracy.

The US's institutions are extremely pliable. Are its people? I fear they may be, lest they would not have re-elected Trump after the events of Jan 6. That said, if they are further tested, I genuinely hope that I'm proven wrong.

I do fear that you may be demonstrating some of the very complacency that your are warning against.

The real safeguard against such a scenario is the collective will of the people and their elected representatives. Public opinion, political pressure, and the mechanisms of impeachment and removal from office are tools designed to address abuses of power.

JHound · 16/03/2025 19:24

There are loads of Americans (and Britons) who love this about him though.

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 19:27

JHound · 16/03/2025 19:24

There are loads of Americans (and Britons) who love this about him though.

Of course they do. Power respects power, and in a world drowning in bureaucracy and hesitation, a man who bulldozes through obstacles looks like a savior to some.

EarthlyNightshade · 16/03/2025 19:31

Happyinarcon · 16/03/2025 14:05

If America bans gender neutral bathrooms I’ll book a holiday there

It's unlikely that they will.
There's plenty of other places you can visit anyway.

PleaseDontFingerMyPouffe · 16/03/2025 19:39

The opposition must do what it has always done when facing an administration that overreaches: use every tool available, relentlessly and without hesitation. The courts may be ignored today, but laws are not written in sand. Litigate everything, drag every overreach into the daylight, and make every legal maneuverer as costly as possible. Congress if it has the spine must use its power to investigate, obstruct, and, if necessary, shut down the very mechanisms that enable executive defiance

The problem with this is that it takes time. A significant proportion of Trump's power lies in the way he "floods" the news. Look at all the executive orders he gave within days, there are so many things that require an analytical and robust response that the result is to swamp those who would opposed him. Which is why people need to move proactively & decisively, not be afraid to anticipate his next move & mobilise a strong opposition.

Unfortunately, it sounds like the Democrats are going through a similar identity crisis to our Conservatives.

HangryLilacGoose · 16/03/2025 19:44

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 19:20

The real safeguard against such a scenario is the collective will of the people and their elected representatives. Public opinion, political pressure, and the mechanisms of impeachment and removal from office are tools designed to address abuses of power.

None of these things are unique to the US, and have existed in democracies that have fallen.

I wish you well in your fight to preserve democracy but I do think that you are showing a little bit of naivety that is rooted in American exceptionalism

BUT, I will meet you half way and say that I am being a premature and hyperbolic in declaring US democracy "dead". "Under significant and unprecedented attack" would be a fairer description.

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 19:53

HangryLilacGoose · 16/03/2025 19:44

None of these things are unique to the US, and have existed in democracies that have fallen.

I wish you well in your fight to preserve democracy but I do think that you are showing a little bit of naivety that is rooted in American exceptionalism

BUT, I will meet you half way and say that I am being a premature and hyperbolic in declaring US democracy "dead". "Under significant and unprecedented attack" would be a fairer description.

Yes, democracies have fallen before, but what makes the U.S. different is that it has a much more robust, diverse, and decentralized power structure than those other systems