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US democracy is about to die

260 replies

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 13:03

... So many indicators for this, the most recent is Trump calling for the DoJ to go after his enemies:

Dear American friends, I hope you find a peaceful way out of this. As for us here, I can only hope we keep the contagion at bay.

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HangryLilacGoose · 21/03/2025 20:01

user9876543211 · 21/03/2025 17:14

It's pretty clearly laid out in Project 2025. Most of his voters just chose not to believe it.

Yes, I know all of this. His campaign, though, distanced themselves from Project 2025. Did I believe them? Not for a second, but many of his supporters do.

Large sections of his voters get their news from Fox News, OAN and other extremely biased right wing outlets. Many of them likely trust the reporting of the right wing news outlets in particular. Not only do those outlets outrageously spin certain stories but others are completely buried.

A recent example, about a week or so ago, the major headline on most US news website, and international news websites in their US or World sections, related to the huge stock market drops, triggered by Trump's tariffs. The same story was only briefly on Fox's front page, about 10 items down, before disappearing from it altogether.

Pre-election, Republicans voters were almost as likely as Democrat voters to see the other side as a threat to democracy. Notwithstanding that I don't agree with them for a moment, that's why I don't think that all/most Republicans were voting with the aim of ending democracy (even if that's what comes to pass) - hence me taking issue with Dotjones' post.

GasPanic · 21/03/2025 20:49

DuncinToffee · 21/03/2025 19:48

A bit of background here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07zpmzxln1o

A common misconception is that the federal education department operates US schools and sets curriculum, but that is primarily done by states and local districts.

A relatively small percentage of funding for primary and secondary schools - about 13% - comes from federal funds. Most of the money comes from state and local taxes.

Established in 1979, the department administers student loans and runs programmes to help low-income students.

But Trump has accused it of indoctrinating young people with racial, sexual, and political material.

From that article it all sounds like a bit of a storm in a tea cup to me.

Not responsible for that much, probably admin heavy and various conservative presidents wanting to close it down since the Reagan era (40 years) and Trump finally getting round to it.

Maybe they decided there were better ways to admin the £188 billion of funding it gets.

Trump attacking unnecessary bureacracy in education or Trump negatively impacting the education of thousands of the vulnerable ? Each will decide their own I guess.

DdraigGoch · 21/03/2025 20:56

GasPanic · 21/03/2025 19:14

Isn't this a similar situation to how education in the UK is devolved to the different countries ? For example I think education in Scotland is managed by its own education department and budget.

I don't know much about US education, but I from what I have seen from what Trump says he suggests that the US education system is failing US children and that education is best devolved to the individual states.

If you take an overview of the US, to me it always seems like a bunch of fairly disparate states bound together by the minimal glue (Federal law and the constitution) in order for them all to be able to agree. In fact Americans are much more impacted by state law in their general day to day lives than Federal law.

I think you can make a basis for dissolving education on two fronts. One because the states have different ideas on education and should be allowed to proceed on that basis (in the same way parents have choices as to whether their children are educated in religious or secular schools in the UK), and two because the current methods appear to be failing.

Not sure about the relevance of RFKjr being in charge of something at a Federal level if there is not going to be a Federal level but again I don't know the full facts about this.

I think the situation here is a bit more complex than you described and has different sides to the argument. This is something I find often on discussions about Trump and his policies. There is rarely any balanced discussion.

The bulk of education funding in the US is raised very locally, from property taxes. So rich areas have well-funded schools, poor areas do not. Removing Federal funding will only make this worse.

One of the reasons that education is in such a mess is that the states control it. Not all states are an issue, of course. Certain ones in particular are the problem.

DdraigGoch · 21/03/2025 21:02

Maybe they decided there were better ways to admin the £188 billion of funding it gets.

Little chance that any school kid in a deprived area will see any of it. Every chance that it'll disappear into the pockets of the billionaires who are having their taxes cut.

HangryLilacGoose · 21/03/2025 21:17

GasPanic · 21/03/2025 20:49

From that article it all sounds like a bit of a storm in a tea cup to me.

Not responsible for that much, probably admin heavy and various conservative presidents wanting to close it down since the Reagan era (40 years) and Trump finally getting round to it.

Maybe they decided there were better ways to admin the £188 billion of funding it gets.

Trump attacking unnecessary bureacracy in education or Trump negatively impacting the education of thousands of the vulnerable ? Each will decide their own I guess.

Scrapping the DoE is primarily designed to allow schools to refuse admissions of children with disabilities and cut education funding to poorer areas.

Basically, it's part of the "anti DEI" agenda.

I suppose whether or not it's a storm in a teacup depends on how strongly you dislike poor or disabled children.

user9876543211 · 21/03/2025 21:27

Hey, @GasPanic. Any response to my fairly lengthy response to you, complete with explanatory links that you seem to have declined to click in your hurry to dismiss it as a storm in a teacup?

I don't have a disabled or SEN child, but I find it difficult to dismiss what's going to happen to other people's children, but I guess you do.

Nothing irritates me more than uninformed ignorance. You have a choice.

CanadianJohn · 22/03/2025 03:45

Trump's getting more brazen, or maybe more forgetful. He claims he did not sign the proclamation invoking the Alien Enemies Act, despite the fact that the proclamation invoking the Alien Enemies Act appears in the Federal Register with Trump’s signature at the bottom.

Trump says he didn’t sign proclamation invoking Alien Enemies Act | CNN Politics

Flamingfeline · 22/03/2025 07:41

@GasPanic states “I don’t know much about US education “. Nuff said.

logicisall · 22/03/2025 07:47

CanadianJohn · 22/03/2025 03:45

Trump's getting more brazen, or maybe more forgetful. He claims he did not sign the proclamation invoking the Alien Enemies Act, despite the fact that the proclamation invoking the Alien Enemies Act appears in the Federal Register with Trump’s signature at the bottom.

Trump says he didn’t sign proclamation invoking Alien Enemies Act | CNN Politics

I'm firmly convinced that Trump is showing the early stages of dementia but he's in power, so who knows where this will end.

cakeorwine · 22/03/2025 07:50

CanadianJohn · 22/03/2025 03:45

Trump's getting more brazen, or maybe more forgetful. He claims he did not sign the proclamation invoking the Alien Enemies Act, despite the fact that the proclamation invoking the Alien Enemies Act appears in the Federal Register with Trump’s signature at the bottom.

Trump says he didn’t sign proclamation invoking Alien Enemies Act | CNN Politics

That's some great gaslighting in there from the White House saying that "Obviously he was talking about the original Act"

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