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US democracy is about to die

260 replies

StandFirm · 16/03/2025 13:03

... So many indicators for this, the most recent is Trump calling for the DoJ to go after his enemies:

Dear American friends, I hope you find a peaceful way out of this. As for us here, I can only hope we keep the contagion at bay.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIfD6vMtmj0

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Flamingfeline · 19/03/2025 19:28

kattaduck · 19/03/2025 13:56

Some of the detainees have been identified as Venezuelans seeking asylum picked up.during their asylum meetings. People with no criminal convictions sent to a prison where torture is the norm.
This is Trumps "Cracking down on illegal immigration"

Money is involved …it’s a “deal”. Everything and everyone can be bought and sold now.

PleaseDontFingerMyPouffe · 20/03/2025 08:14

kattaduck · 19/03/2025 13:56

Some of the detainees have been identified as Venezuelans seeking asylum picked up.during their asylum meetings. People with no criminal convictions sent to a prison where torture is the norm.
This is Trumps "Cracking down on illegal immigration"

They're misidentifying people with tattoos aren't they? There's no logic, let alone intelligence, applied to the process at all.

Serpentstooth · 20/03/2025 10:27

I don't understand how USA, enthusiastically deporting foreigners and imposing sanctions against drug importers, has handed the country to an admitted drug user, the foreign - South African born- apartheid supporting, ketamine using Elon Musk. It, like so much - most- of the Bigly Lying stuff, makes no sense at all. Heaven help you USA, you're going, to need it.

StandFirm · 20/03/2025 10:32

Serpentstooth · 20/03/2025 10:27

I don't understand how USA, enthusiastically deporting foreigners and imposing sanctions against drug importers, has handed the country to an admitted drug user, the foreign - South African born- apartheid supporting, ketamine using Elon Musk. It, like so much - most- of the Bigly Lying stuff, makes no sense at all. Heaven help you USA, you're going, to need it.

It only makes sense if you face the horrible truth that this regime is intentionally dragging the country to the dark side. I'm not being facetious. I think there is a deliberate philosophical intention to reshape the world into a twisted combo of Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, 1984 and the William Gibson novels that loosely inspired The Matrix... Not to forget good old Nietszche.
This is a celebration of materialism, greed, rule of force for the sake of force, glorification of violence and humiliation. This is a monster rising.

OP posts:
MrsSkylerWhite · 20/03/2025 10:34

Just heard his latest plan, to take “real estate” in Ukraine as part of the settlement.

The man is clearly unwell. No one could be so crass.

Serpentstooth · 20/03/2025 11:04

Agree completely. Netanyahu hand in glove here too. Thousands of Israelis protesting against him, busily dismantling the democratic order there. Criminals own us all now. I can't see a way out.

Dotjones · 20/03/2025 14:44

The situation in America illustrates the most significant flaw with democracy, or at least a paradox. Any democracy worthy of the name must allow for itself to be dismantled and replaced. It must allow voters to choose candidates who will destroy it. A democracy that doesn't allow voters to replace it with another form of government isn't really a democracy. (North Korea has democracy but few would describe it as true democracy because although technically someone could oppose the current ruler it wouldn't end very well for them.)

If we look at human history, democracy is an unusual way of running things. Most of the time, in most places, a small elite has held power, power based on military strength.

Generally the form of government a society has runs through a cycle. People get increasingly angry, they revolt and overthrow the existing hierarchy, install a different one they are more happy with, get complacent, get disillusioned, get increasingly angry and the cycle starts again. Our current style of democracy has been around for long enough for people to have become disillusioned and are getting increasingly angry. It signifies change is coming.

People voted for Trump for the same reason people voted for Brexit and for the same reason they voted for Starmer. They were sick of the way things had been run for years and wanted change. They didn't really think about what that change would be, perhaps they didn't even care - the logic went "it's shit now, if we vote for the same we'll get more shit, if we vote for something different it might be better and it might be worse, but at least we've tried."

I deliberately included Starmer in that list because it may help people understand why people voted for Trump or Brexit. Lots of Starmer-voters hate Trump and hated Brexit but the point is the thinking pattern among the electorate was the same: it's shit now, let's vote for something different.

Locutus2000 · 20/03/2025 15:09

Maitri108 · 20/03/2025 13:43

You must not criticise our great leader!

French scientist refused entry to US for criticising Trump.

Interesting how quickly people have capitulated.

Interesting how quickly people have capitulated.

They have been overwhelmed by a calculated media strategy throwing so much shit at them up has become down.

Labour have clearly been taking notes.

DdraigGoch · 20/03/2025 22:37

Serpentstooth · 20/03/2025 10:27

I don't understand how USA, enthusiastically deporting foreigners and imposing sanctions against drug importers, has handed the country to an admitted drug user, the foreign - South African born- apartheid supporting, ketamine using Elon Musk. It, like so much - most- of the Bigly Lying stuff, makes no sense at all. Heaven help you USA, you're going, to need it.

Just proves that it's all about money. Rich foreigners are welcome.

ThisAlertRaven · 20/03/2025 23:15

YourAmberPoet · 16/03/2025 18:34

Ah, but democracy is not defined by the character of one administration it’s defined by the system’s ability to correct itself. Leaders come and go, some with grace, others kicking and screaming, but the machinery of democracy grinds on.

If an administration defies the rule of law, the response isn’t to declare democracy dead it’s to use the very mechanisms built to restrain power. Elections, courts, legislatures, even the will of the people in the streets these are the antibodies of a democracy fighting off infection. If alternative means become necessary, it’s not proof that democracy has failed, but that it is in the process of defending itself. Democracy isn’t a static ideal; it’s a battlefield, and so long as the fight continues, it lives

Wow that's beautiful actually

HangryLilacGoose · 20/03/2025 23:19

Dotjones · 20/03/2025 14:44

The situation in America illustrates the most significant flaw with democracy, or at least a paradox. Any democracy worthy of the name must allow for itself to be dismantled and replaced. It must allow voters to choose candidates who will destroy it. A democracy that doesn't allow voters to replace it with another form of government isn't really a democracy. (North Korea has democracy but few would describe it as true democracy because although technically someone could oppose the current ruler it wouldn't end very well for them.)

If we look at human history, democracy is an unusual way of running things. Most of the time, in most places, a small elite has held power, power based on military strength.

Generally the form of government a society has runs through a cycle. People get increasingly angry, they revolt and overthrow the existing hierarchy, install a different one they are more happy with, get complacent, get disillusioned, get increasingly angry and the cycle starts again. Our current style of democracy has been around for long enough for people to have become disillusioned and are getting increasingly angry. It signifies change is coming.

People voted for Trump for the same reason people voted for Brexit and for the same reason they voted for Starmer. They were sick of the way things had been run for years and wanted change. They didn't really think about what that change would be, perhaps they didn't even care - the logic went "it's shit now, if we vote for the same we'll get more shit, if we vote for something different it might be better and it might be worse, but at least we've tried."

I deliberately included Starmer in that list because it may help people understand why people voted for Trump or Brexit. Lots of Starmer-voters hate Trump and hated Brexit but the point is the thinking pattern among the electorate was the same: it's shit now, let's vote for something different.

Re. your first paragraph- Trump didn't run on a platform of dismantling democracy so I don't think the point holds.

HangryLilacGoose · 20/03/2025 23:21

ThisAlertRaven · 20/03/2025 23:15

Wow that's beautiful actually

Back so soon?

DdraigGoch · 21/03/2025 02:40

HangryLilacGoose · 20/03/2025 23:19

Re. your first paragraph- Trump didn't run on a platform of dismantling democracy so I don't think the point holds.

He hinted at it, saying "you won't have to vote any more" at least twice.

HangryLilacGoose · 21/03/2025 03:47

DdraigGoch · 21/03/2025 02:40

He hinted at it, saying "you won't have to vote any more" at least twice.

I know, but it was vague winks, not a policy platform. If he had openly and clearly stated his intention to end democracy if elected, I don't imagine he would have won. Most of his voters, ironically, saw the democrats as a thread to democracy.

Maitri108 · 21/03/2025 03:53

HangryLilacGoose · 21/03/2025 03:47

I know, but it was vague winks, not a policy platform. If he had openly and clearly stated his intention to end democracy if elected, I don't imagine he would have won. Most of his voters, ironically, saw the democrats as a thread to democracy.

What's vague about an insurrection?

WASHINGTON, July 27 (Reuters) - Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump told Christians on Friday that if they vote for him this November, "in four years, you don't have to vote again. We'll have it fixed so good, you're not gonna have to vote."

Seems pretty clear to me.

HangryLilacGoose · 21/03/2025 15:03

But the majority of his voters have swallowed the narrative that he did, in fact, win in 2016 and that the insurrection was a broadly peaceful protest, because that's what Trump and right wing media have told them.

Maitri108 · 21/03/2025 15:13

HangryLilacGoose · 21/03/2025 15:03

But the majority of his voters have swallowed the narrative that he did, in fact, win in 2016 and that the insurrection was a broadly peaceful protest, because that's what Trump and right wing media have told them.

Well they got what they voted for and he didn't hide what he was.

HangryLilacGoose · 21/03/2025 15:22

Maitri108 · 21/03/2025 15:13

Well they got what they voted for and he didn't hide what he was.

Honestly I think most of them are brainwashed beyond reason.

OP posts:
user9876543211 · 21/03/2025 17:14

HangryLilacGoose · 21/03/2025 03:47

I know, but it was vague winks, not a policy platform. If he had openly and clearly stated his intention to end democracy if elected, I don't imagine he would have won. Most of his voters, ironically, saw the democrats as a thread to democracy.

It's pretty clearly laid out in Project 2025. Most of his voters just chose not to believe it.

DuncinToffee · 21/03/2025 17:55

Trump is certainly following project 2025's checklist with dismantling the Education Department

Opening words in their education chapter

“Federal education policy should be limited and, ultimately, the federal U.S. Department of Education should be eliminated.”

RFKjr is going to be put in charge of SEN

GasPanic · 21/03/2025 19:14

DuncinToffee · 21/03/2025 17:55

Trump is certainly following project 2025's checklist with dismantling the Education Department

Opening words in their education chapter

“Federal education policy should be limited and, ultimately, the federal U.S. Department of Education should be eliminated.”

RFKjr is going to be put in charge of SEN

Isn't this a similar situation to how education in the UK is devolved to the different countries ? For example I think education in Scotland is managed by its own education department and budget.

I don't know much about US education, but I from what I have seen from what Trump says he suggests that the US education system is failing US children and that education is best devolved to the individual states.

If you take an overview of the US, to me it always seems like a bunch of fairly disparate states bound together by the minimal glue (Federal law and the constitution) in order for them all to be able to agree. In fact Americans are much more impacted by state law in their general day to day lives than Federal law.

I think you can make a basis for dissolving education on two fronts. One because the states have different ideas on education and should be allowed to proceed on that basis (in the same way parents have choices as to whether their children are educated in religious or secular schools in the UK), and two because the current methods appear to be failing.

Not sure about the relevance of RFKjr being in charge of something at a Federal level if there is not going to be a Federal level but again I don't know the full facts about this.

I think the situation here is a bit more complex than you described and has different sides to the argument. This is something I find often on discussions about Trump and his policies. There is rarely any balanced discussion.

user9876543211 · 21/03/2025 19:36

GasPanic · 21/03/2025 19:14

Isn't this a similar situation to how education in the UK is devolved to the different countries ? For example I think education in Scotland is managed by its own education department and budget.

I don't know much about US education, but I from what I have seen from what Trump says he suggests that the US education system is failing US children and that education is best devolved to the individual states.

If you take an overview of the US, to me it always seems like a bunch of fairly disparate states bound together by the minimal glue (Federal law and the constitution) in order for them all to be able to agree. In fact Americans are much more impacted by state law in their general day to day lives than Federal law.

I think you can make a basis for dissolving education on two fronts. One because the states have different ideas on education and should be allowed to proceed on that basis (in the same way parents have choices as to whether their children are educated in religious or secular schools in the UK), and two because the current methods appear to be failing.

Not sure about the relevance of RFKjr being in charge of something at a Federal level if there is not going to be a Federal level but again I don't know the full facts about this.

I think the situation here is a bit more complex than you described and has different sides to the argument. This is something I find often on discussions about Trump and his policies. There is rarely any balanced discussion.

It's not a simple equation. States already have great discretion in how schools are run, funded and staffed. The Federal DOE, controls funding for IEPs and students with disabilities and SEN, among other things, including grant and funding programmes for lower income students to access higher education and allocating federal funds to balance lack of equity between wealthier and poorer states.

I suppose you could, conceivably, make an argument for getting rid of the DOE and devolving everything to the states, but if you cared about eduction and children, you would do it in a thorough, comprehensive, well-thought-out, planned, staffed and studied way to try to create educational parity between states. You wouldn't take a wrecking ball to the body that currently does the job without doing any of that.

Children with disabilities and SEN are going to pay a very high price here. If there are complexities that we are not understanding (there aren't), it is the responsibility of the administration to clearly articulate them (they haven't).

https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics#:~:text=States%20contribute%20a%20total%20of,funding%20is%20equivalent%20to%203.25%25.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/20/what-is-department-education-trump

You also would likely not put this person in charge
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/08/us/linda-mcmahon-sexual-abuse-lawsuit.html?unlocked_article_code=1.5k4.3Thl.9HLUOTAw2ur3&smid=url-share

U.S. Public Education Spending Statistics [2025]: per Pupil + Total

Find out how much the U.S. spends on public education and how the costs break down per student, by state and by level of government.

https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics#:~:text=States%20contribute%20a%20total%20of,funding%20is%20equivalent%20to%203.25%25.

DuncinToffee · 21/03/2025 19:48

A bit of background here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07zpmzxln1o

A common misconception is that the federal education department operates US schools and sets curriculum, but that is primarily done by states and local districts.

A relatively small percentage of funding for primary and secondary schools - about 13% - comes from federal funds. Most of the money comes from state and local taxes.

Established in 1979, the department administers student loans and runs programmes to help low-income students.

But Trump has accused it of indoctrinating young people with racial, sexual, and political material.

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