Changes to PIP

[Orangesandlemons77]

It looks like to qualify for PIP people will need 4 points in one area, see here from the Times
"In future, ministers will require applicants to score at least four points on at least one activity to qualify"
Not sure if this means in each section (care, mobility)

This would exclude quite a few people I think

I'm terrified for my 18yo nephew, diagnosed with ADHD and autism (PDA profile). He was adopted by dsis aged 7 and as soon as adoption services were rid of him, all support dropped away. Dsis has had to battle relentlessly to attempt to get him the right support, which just hasn't materialised. Since he turned 18, things have deteriorated so much that dsis is unable to have him in the family home and is currently paying towards a bedsit for him, bolstered by his PIP and UC. He avoids most every day demands, has lost his job (because dsis is no longer able to do everything for him, and he resists her help and support anyway) and has run out of money to pay for essentials because he cannot cope with the everyday demands of living alone. He tells professionals he can cope, despite my dsis knowing different. If you speak to him, he seems like a perfectly lovely, well mannered young man. But his mental age is 14, and he has virtually no executive skills. He's at a real risk of homelessness because he's not a priority for social housing due to him being a single male. Poor kid had a bloody awful start in life, neglected and abused. Poor dsis has been dumped by the local authority as soon as he was off their books. His (and her) mental health is in shreds (and she is the strongest and most 'resilient' woman i know!) The state's safety net, and dsis's limited ability to support him financially, is literally the only thing keeping him off the streets, and quite possibly alive. Yet someone would look at him and say "you're articulate, well mannered and say all the right things, you're fit to work and don't need any additional financial support". The social worker dsis has been engaging with has said there are so, so many similar cases. These are the most vulnerable people in society who will be most badly affected.

Where are people getting the stats to claim that 10% of working age adults are on PIP?
So far I've found stats on the percentages of working age people who are claiming benefits who only claim PIP, or who claim PIP in combination with other benefits. Which I can see people might try to use as the percentage of working age people full stop.
I can also see the number of PIP claimants (age unspecified), which in August 2023 (latest data I've found from a quick search) was 3.1 million excluding policy devolved to Scotland. That's 4.5% of the UK population.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/dwp-benefits-statistics-february-2024/dwp-benefits-statistics-february-2024#sect-5

Or 7% of the number of working age people in the UK, which is apparently 43.2 million.
Obviously these are very rough figures as not all my stats will be from exactly the same time.

No, I get what I've written. My mobility element is taken away because I have to have a WAV.

Bit naive.
Nobody in their right mind chooses not to work.
Nobody gets to choose. Able bodied people are constantly harassed about getting into work.
They have to jobsearch 35 hours a week and provide proof of this. They have to attend meetings and appointments too. Attend courses. Money can be stopped if you don't adhere.
How much do you actually know about what able bodied people who aren't in paid work have too do. Not much it seems.
Nobody is free from pressure.

PIP is an in work benefit. I wish people would understand that. Lots of people on PIP work.

Actually very few do - only 16% of people on PIP work and that includes people who only do a few hours part time. 84% do not work at all.

The vast majority of the millions claiming PIP are not in work.

That does not mean it is not an out of work benefit.
The purpose of it is to enable a disabled person to gain independence and have the playing field levelled. They should not be out of pocket due to their disability.
Whether they are on UC/ESA, or work full time on £80k... that still applies.

So around 600,000 people who claim PIP are in work and now face having their benefits cut.

PIP is the only benefit our household claims. If I lose my PIP I will make it my mission to reduce my working hours to the minimum to offset what it costs me working in health terms.

More stats of sorts in this evening’s (technically yesterday evening’s!) latest article on benefits cuts in the Times.

https://archive.ph/VnMyt

This is the archive version so everyone can read it.

Sorry if I’m repeating someone else’s post.

Absolutely. I totally understand you have to prioritise your health and wellbeing and not the economy. I don’t think they realise that people will need to do this and it will be counter productive in so many areas .

One thing that strikes me is that wealthy influential commentators in the media and public life suddenly seem to not have a vocal opinion on the debate. I see constant pieces on TV where the disabled are hailed for their fortitude and positivity ranging from Strictly come Dancing to children in need. However when it comes to long term financing of living costs for the disabled there is suddenly tumble weedt

I wonder if some want the feel good factor of giving to a charity yet baulk at their taxation going towards those that are disabled or thinking a wealth tax may be approriate. Isn't there some hypocrisy here?

I am so worried about this. My son has ASD and high level support needs. He also has learning disabilities that are undiagnosed specifically. (At 16 his reading age is 8. He is predicted Us for all GCSEs despite working as hard as he can the ability to retain information is not there). He was awarded PIP earlier thus year to run until Nov 28. As an example he was given only 2 points for budgeting (needing help with complex budgeting decisions) despite the fact that he can't even count money reliably let alone budget for bills etc. PIP is not awarded easily. If this goes through as seems to be expected and ADHD/autism are no longer acceptable for claims I have no idea where that leaves us. When I asked for him to be put on the Learning Disabilities Register with our doctor last year I was told it was unnecessary as was covered by his ASD diagnosis. I will have to push for a diagnosis on his learning disability which will cost the NHS. If his award is revoked I have no idea what I will do. I work 29hrs a week which I can do because he is at school. When he goes to college I will have to reduce my hours as the (full time) course is 3 days a week. I can't live on carers allowance. I can't afford to lose hours. I can't leave him at home on his own for more than a couple of hours. I have no idea what they expect me to do. There is such a spectrum of ASD/ADHD and they are presuming that everyone is mildly affected and high functioning. I accept that more people are diagnosed which isn't a bad thing, the problem is people who have no idea on the complexities of these diagnoses are now judging everyone the same way. It's all very worrying.

@sparkellie I don't think people can understand unless they live it. I'm in a similar situation. 19 year old DD1 can't be left at all (learning disability, very limited sense of danger, high impulsivity, 1:1 at college), 17 year old DD2 has a bespoke timetable, currently unable to attend school site, so staff come to the house to pick up, and it's only half-days, so I have to facilitate hand overs, and 15 year old DD3 has a bespoke timetable, currently unable to attend school site and rarely able to leave the house, school staff come to the house for sessions, only 4.5 hours per week and I have to be present.

If they reduce PIP/UC then we'll just be poorer. There is already a drop of about £180 per month when a child moves from a parent's claim to UC + LCWRA in their own right - their needs don't change and we still have to do everything we did before they aged out of the child claim. If they reduce it further, we'll just have less money to meet their needs.

We’re in a paradoxical situation where apparently disability related benefits are extremely rigorously checked and almost impossible to get without endless medical diagnoses and paperwork, yet at the same time something like 1 in 5 new cars are via Motability, which you can only use if in receipt of certain disability related benefits. Something doesn’t add up. 1 in 5 people are not so disabled they need a car to get around.

Do you have a car?

I found PIP really easy to get for ASD daughter - I thought it would be really difficult. It wasn’t.

She has a zero hours role at a sports stadium, so no UC as that keeps her ticking over. Plus I don’t want her claiming UC (though she would have access to more support to get into work if she was)

PIP is being used to teach her to drive, as she can’t use Public Transport, and a car will make her more employable. Once she has that, we won’t need the PIP.

Yes, that I paid for myself. What’s your point?

Seems to me PIP is the biggest disaster ever. People getting it for no good reason and other deserving folk refused. It needs to be abolished altogether and replaced by a different benefit.

You are the naive one. A lot of folk choose not to work. And many others work as few hours as they can get away with.

You said "1 in 5 people are not so disabled they need a car to get around".
How easy would you find it to manage without your car? I mean, presumably you don't pay for it for the fun of it but because you need it.
I don't know what public transport is like round you, but its shocking here. Most people can't manage without a car just to get to and from work, let alone to all the appointments people with disabilities have to attend (often in places public transport doesn't go directly to).

My reading of the changes is that

1. They are going to save money by not reassessing people who have lifelong disability.

Personally I’ve always found the reassessment of long term disabled a ridiculous waste of money. Limbs don’t grow back and many people born with life long disability are not going to suddenly not be disabled at all. There should always have been a category of people we accept can’t care for themselves and will always need support.

2. They are going to reduce the money they give to the most severely impacted disabled on UC and “share” that money with those more able so they can increase their opportunities to work.

Is this where the money should be found? Have we been giving profoundly disabled people too much money or are they just an easy target? I’m a bit shocked that these very vulnerable adults are being targeted in this way.

3. They are going to make it harder to receive the working benefit PIP reducing the number of people who qualify.

I thought the whole point of PIP was that it was supposed to foster independence so people could go out to work. Are we sure that reducing it will help more people get to work? I’d like to understand how they’ve come to this conclusion.

Public transport round here is no better or worse than many other places in the UK. As a family we use a mix of bicycles, cars and public transport to get around. Our cars are decent, but all over 10 years old, and certainly not replaced by new cars every 3 years.

I'd be interested in the number of families that have a motability car as well as taxis to and from school costing thousands every year.

That sounds an incredibly expensive and demoralising idea. I wonder what you actually think people spend their PIP on?

You do understand that a motability car is RENTED don’t you? You can sell your car and use that money as a down payment and rent one yourself if you like.