Emotional support - do we expect too much of men?

[NeuroSpicyCat]

I've read a lot of threads all across the internet where women complain that their male partners are emotionally detached, emotionally withdrawn and generally unable to provide emotional support. The typical male response to female distress is to try to "fix" and offer logical suggestions. For a lot of men, empathy is not their strong point.

Would it be a better idea for most women in this situation to stop looking to a husband for emotional support, which so many men are not good at providing?

If a man is genuinely a 'good man' (i.e. honest, basically kind, not lazy or selfish, takes responsibility, etc. etc.), then why leave him just because he is not also your emotional support?

It is nice if a husband is also your best friend - but is that a requirement of a relationship?

The question is: Do we sometimes expect too much of husbands on the emotional side, generally speaking?

[NC for this thread, as I'd like a general discussion on the topic; not one focused on my specific situation]

I think that more people of both sexes need to work on their emotional literacy and become better at identifying and communicating their needs and wants. I don’t think the problem is always simply that men as as a whole aren’t good at empathy or understanding (some aren’t of course, and I think a lot of this is about socialisation and that we historically haven’t socialised boys to acknowledge emotions but to fix problems, and socially attitudes around this are slowly changing) but that there’s a massive chasm for many women between how they feel and being able to clearly explain what they want from their partner, so there’s a lot of second guessing and “well, he should just know I want sympathy and not a solution” going on. Like most of us do a regular skills matrix at work, most people and relationships also need to conduct a personal skills matrix review from time to time.

I’m always surprised however that so many people seem to end up married to people who seem almost complete strangers to them. How do you get to a decade married still frustrated that your partner doesn’t automatically know what you want in particular situations? How in the first place do you end up marrying somebody you find detached and lacking in empathy when you are somebody who really desires attention and empathy?

Some men are crap at some emotional stuff
so are some women. Its sexist to make out it’s just men

and It’s not overdemanding to want a relationship that works for you - and for me DH is my best friend and my support human

personal skills matrix

Is there one of these for emotional intelligence?

I appreciate I'm generalising with my "men are worse at emotional intelligence" point, but due to a multitude of factors (including as you point out, socialisation), it does tend to hold true.

So as women, we can perpetually stay in a cycle of feeling neglected, misunderstood, and trying to change our men; or we can accept their limitations and seek emotional validation and support from elsewhere?

How in the first place do you end up marrying somebody you find emotionally detached and lacking in empathy when you are somebody who really desires attention and empathy?

SUCH a good question. Wilful ignorance and blind hope? Marrying for the 'good' qualities (even if they don't include emotional intelligence).

Not All Men, I know. But a significant proportion to make it a trope and meme fodder.

I have to say that the most equal and mutually supportive relationship that I know of is my DD and her partner.

They are both women.

I think it’s about understanding how your partner shows support - if I want logic or a bit of tough love then I go to my partner, if I want sympathy and a hand hold I go to my friends. It’s not that he doesn’t show support but he has a different way of doing it.
I don’t think women leave me for not showing emotional support, I think they leave due to them not showing any form of support

I fear I am a “fixer”. If someone has a problem, I’m trying to find a practical solution, and I appreciate that’s not always what they want.

However, I don’t think a spouse can be everything . And emotional distance is sometimes a response to someone going on and on, round and round in circles and basically moaning on repeat. No wonder some spouses (either sex) feel sympathy burnout.

'The typical male response to female distress is to try to "fix" and offer logical suggestions. For a lot of men, empathy is not their strong point.'

I think that's true of many women too. It's very rare to find someone who can truly listen and empathize and contain somebody else's feelings. And women have often had the message in so many ways that we're not allowed to ask for things or assert ourselves, so we sometimes expect other people to be mind readers

DH is not a naturally emotional person and represses feelings. I am however very clear about how I feel and what I want from him - which makes it easy for him to support as needed. I'm also very consistent with my own responses so over time he now knows what is needed at different times. I also appreciate his more calm, practical (removing emotion) approach and feel it helps balance me out. Like a pp says I do think it goes both ways and communication is key. But it needs to happen early in a relationship so you can assess whether he is capable of meeting your needs (taking instruction) or is just physically incapable and won't ever change. After a point, it's hard to change habits without resentment both sides.

I have dated some men who have no emotional intelligence and no amount of communication or explanation would work. There needs to be a base level of empathy and care I think on BOTH sides. You can't teach either.

After being with men who were very emotionally intelligent, deep, very in touch with their feelings.. It’s hard to settle for less as you know it exists. Obviously that stuff not essential for fwb etc

So as women, we can perpetually stay in a cycle of feeling neglected, misunderstood, and trying to change our men; or we can accept their limitations and seek emotional validation and support from elsewhere?

MN has taught me quite how many women there are out there who don’t have many or any friends - and that in quite a lot of cases, they don’t see friendship as something they need in their lives because they have “my own little family.” But it’s not realistic to expect one person, your partner, to fulfil all of your emotional needs or to be exactly what you need in every situation, and eventually it’s going to lead to intense frustration when it’s clear they aren’t or can’t be. So yes, I think more women need to recognise the benefits of looking outside their relationships for support, but not from a “men aren’t good at emotions” standpoint, just an entirely human one.

I don’t think it’s necessarily sex-based but relationships skills and communication based: I’m a not particularly empathetic woman and I don’t particularly find it useful when others show it towards me. I’m a do-er and a problem solver. Somebody saying they understand how I feel or know how difficult something must be doesn’t do anything to resolve an issue or fix a problem. I find it much easier to suggest solutions than to be a shoulder to cry on, and vice versa from others towards me. But, because DH, my closest friends (men and women) and I are all really emotionally literate and good communicators, we’re good at recognising each other’s emotional needs and working with that, rather than simply treating others as we prefer to be treated ourselves.

I mean I also have to say I find it strange that people who have a problem are more interested in “being listened to” than fixing the damn problem and I am female. I just don’t understand- have just learnt instead that some people are like that

I am however very clear about how I feel and what I want from him - which makes it easy for him to support as needed.

This is a skill in itself. Can you explain how you do it? Maybe give an example?

How common are those men, in your experience? Is there a particular "type" of man that has this ability? (A particular background or age range)

To add - DH is my biggest emotional support and there isn't anything I won't discuss with him. He is very empathetic, just not emotional. But this helps me because I can rant and rave about stuff to him and he doesn't take on my burden. So it doesn't burn him out and he can also handle my hormonal outbursts. I dated a man who was as sensitive and emotional as me as it was a disaster because we both spiralled with the other.

I've said this before, but I think a large proportion of the problems society has is down to the idea that you must be looking for love and then you must stay in a relationship and try a socially acceptable amount before giving up. Why have we done this to ourselves? What's it to anyone else if I want to break up with an otherwise 'perfect' man because he has long toenails?

To this end, I think we have romanticised the idea of falling in love and looking past people's quirks and mistakes. People say 'women are too picky these days' I don't think women are bloody picky enough!! I can't believe anyone's concerned about women ending up alone and no babies being born, when we have for thousands of years seen the opposite end of the spectrum: women trapped in relationships with men who don't like them and don't see why they should show them any care.

Anecdotally, everyone i know whose 'crap at emotional stuff' hasn't actually tried to be good at it. They havnt listened to their partner telling them what they need, they don't do any research on it, they don't look out for opportunities to actually try, because they don't actually care and see it as an annoyance. But they will do all these things as part of their job? They get defensive, and they dont say sorry, or they dont actually put any work in other than saying 'I'll try harder' - they don't actually think about HOW.
And women are meant to do everything, and also be the emotional manager? No. We shouldn't put up with this. We have needs too, we are not just providers to men.

Sorry if that sounded emotive, it's just i see such a consistent pattern of 'I'm not good with emotions' but then not doing anything to actually fix it, and hurting their partner. If I wasn't good at something and it was hurting my partner, I'd be doing my damned hardest. Google is free. You can literally Google it. There's no excuse. You have to work at relationships and this is the work - active participation and proactive effort. Not just sticking around through a storm.
Sorry, i see so many women hurt by this. Makes me very angry. We deserve better.
I am someone who struggled to process my emotions and verbalise them and I have worked on it because I don't want to hurt my partner. I see it as a responsibility in a relationship. I might not always get it right, but I have to try - otherwise I am knowingly upsetting my partner!

The thing I've never understood is why women marry men who aren't good at giving them what they need in the first place. I'm not talking about the way so many women have no idea how their husband will change and not step up when they have children, that can be difficult to predict. But basically:

Would it be a better idea for most women in this situation to stop looking to a husband for emotional support, which so many men are not good at providing?
If a man is genuinely a 'good man' (i.e. honest, basically kind, not lazy or selfish, takes responsibility, etc. etc.), then why leave him just because he is not also your emotional support?
It is nice if a husband is also your best friend - but is that a requirement of a relationship?

Well, why would you marry someone who ISN'T already your best friend. DH isn't perfect, of course, and neither am I. But we got married because overall, we give each other what we need. A key reason I love him is that he gets the balance right between accepting and appreciating that I'm strong and independent and competent but that also sometimes I just need to be coddled a bit.

Why are our standards so low? that's a societal issue often but I find it bizarre.

So we are ttc atm and I had a miscarriage. Now DH's natural response is to shrug it off as one of those things and given it was only 8 weeks he didn't have an emotional connection like I did. He also didn't get the physical pain. So I explained to him how I had felt responsible for this little bean and like I'd failed them, and that I was worried I'd never carry a baby to term, and my hormones were whack and described exactly what was happening in my body. And that I was physically ok but mentally low and needed cheering up and re-assurance. With this in mind he got me my favourite chocolate cake, told me that my body hadn't failed but if the baby was born with abnormalities they'd be in pain so actually my body was stopping my baby's pain. And over the next few months whenever I got a bit down esp as I wasn't getting pregnant he'd offer me a back rub because he knows touch is important to me.

If I hadn't explicitly told him what was going on - he would have no idea what I needed or what I was going through.

YANBU because men and women are different. Traits, skills and abilities vary per individual of course but stereotypes are usually founded in truth.

The reason men and women are attracted to one another is because of the differences between them. If there were no biological reason for women to procreate with men, the vast majority of relationships would still be mixed sex.

Part of the problem with the drive towards equality is that there is a misconception that "equality" is the same as equal and identical. The same treatment, the same standards, the same behaviours, the same thinking patterns.

It's clearly not true that this is the case and is unnatural to promote this way of thinking. I find it strange how people are so keen to push for such an unnatural state of affairs, given the general assumption that "natural is good" that is applied to other areas (like food or the environment).

I agree that some people are putting too much on one person. My dh is a good listener. However, he is crap at practical things. Worse than crap - an utter disaster. My father was brilliant at diy etc. He was also so kind. Was he a “talker”? No. It seems some women really believe that Movies24 man exists: the human rights lawyer turned carpenter, truck, dog, guitar… and an endless ability to listen and provide support but actually not ever complain about anything himself.

Ester Perel talks a lot about how what we used to get from an entire village (support practically and emotionally) we now expect from one person which is a very tall order.

I think there's some truth in the stereotype, but equally women can be unempathetic too. As for good listening skills - many people don't really go above and beyond with these. Most women I know will show empathy up to a point (but not all), but there's a social limit in my view, beyond which it runs out.

My life long best friend is really good at being empathetic (she's a social worker so that may have honed her skills) but I sometimes feel it's too much - I don't need buckets of empathy poured in my direction, it can feel overwhelming sometimes. I'm a resilient person, I can deal with my own problems, though a bit of advice from others can be useful.

The key men in my life, husband, brother, father and brother in law would not necessarily be considered good listeners or especially empathetic (they all like to pontificate, sorry, talk) but they are all kind and supportive in other ways.

I think everyone should be good people so that's neither here nor there. If your husband is not a good man you don't have to stay. If you're not happy, you don't have to stay regardless of how good he is.

People have different emotional needs and different relationships. There's a lot of variation about what a marriage needs to be for two people to be content. We can't force our expectations of what marriage should be on another couple. Some partners are a practical team and that works well for them. As long as they are compatible, it's all good.

When we have an expectation of an emotional bond and emotional fulfillment within the marriage, either party absolutely gets to leave if they feel unfulfilled. One would hope a way forward could be found but life is hard. To be lonely within a marriage is to be deeply unhappy. There's no denying it. Why bother.

The one point I would make is that I have seen women who are clearly going to panic if anything goes wrong with their marriage because they have put all their eggs in that basket emotionally. Also men but less often. They don't have anyone to vent to or to hug them or to go out with except their partner. So if he is emotionally absent or flawed in some way it becomes a huge deal very quickly when perhaps it doesn't need to be.

Also agree with the one person thing. I've always made sure I have friends as well as a partner. The idea of being reliant on one person has never appealed to me. It's only through reading social media that I have discovered it's seemingly common.