Emotional support - do we expect too much of men?

[NeuroSpicyCat]

I've read a lot of threads all across the internet where women complain that their male partners are emotionally detached, emotionally withdrawn and generally unable to provide emotional support. The typical male response to female distress is to try to "fix" and offer logical suggestions. For a lot of men, empathy is not their strong point.

Would it be a better idea for most women in this situation to stop looking to a husband for emotional support, which so many men are not good at providing?

If a man is genuinely a 'good man' (i.e. honest, basically kind, not lazy or selfish, takes responsibility, etc. etc.), then why leave him just because he is not also your emotional support?

It is nice if a husband is also your best friend - but is that a requirement of a relationship?

The question is: Do we sometimes expect too much of husbands on the emotional side, generally speaking?

[NC for this thread, as I'd like a general discussion on the topic; not one focused on my specific situation]

Exactly this, I think it comes down to women not picking partners for the right reasons, whether that's because they've had bad experiences/expectations modelled to them or it's a societal thing.

There is too much emphasis on physical attractiveness and random things in common (like both liking the same music or films), or finding things like them playing football attractive. Whereas things that are actually important, like kindness, how you work together as a team, whether you both have the same drive and goals/ambition, and what he's like around his family and what those relationships look like, are all far more important.

My OH may be balding on top and could lose a few pounds around the middle, but it's far more important to me that he's always there for me and has taken the time over the years to figure me out and to understand what I need even when I don't know myself.

I always ask a man's mum/mother figure what his biggest flaw is, it reveals a lot about their relationship if not him.

We didn't realise how emotionally broken we both were until we were on the brink of divorce.

I'll save you time but it's all about your attachment patterns from childhood, they affect everything. It's took a lot of time and effort but we are really great now.

So in summary, I can see why you think we should just cut men some slack but it's the wrong thinking. The truth is that we are all broken.

The bar for men is in Hades.

We should not expect them to be equal partners, equal parents, not expect to share the domestic load, emotional labour and now emotional support is expecting too much.

So can I ask - what exactly is the point of romantic partnership with men?

I absolutely think you're right.

Whether feminists choose to believe it or not, men and women are wired up differently. Men are good at different things to women. Generally speaking.

Emotional support is not a typical male strong point.

Bluntly put, I think we put a lot of pressure on men and women to be something they're not.

I believe it's why a lot of marriages don't work. There's no room for flaws.

Generations ago I think men and women understood these differences ands accommodated them. Of course there will always be exceptions. But generally speaking men and women are different beings.

It's very 2025 to blur and merge the genders and sexes in the name of equality, but I think it is becoming harmful when it comes to tolerance and acceptance within heterosexual marriages.

I'll be jumped on , but not everyone agrees with 2025 Talk just because it's fashionable or sounds more 'intelligent'

DH used to do the fixing thing when we first got together. It wasn't because he lacked emotional depth - it was because me being sad made his brain go "WIFE SAD WIFE SAD HATE WIFE BEING SAD MAKE WIFE NOT SAD". I told him directly that I didn't need solutions, I needed him to listen and empathise and give me a hug. So now that's what he does.

I understand the impulse though. I hate him being sad too and I'd fix it if I could. But I know I can't, so I also listen, empathise and cuddle.

Well the problem with your take is that, sometimes, there is no one else but your dh. And I dint mean it as ‘I don’t have any friend’ but more on a situational basis or because the subject is very personal.

So like my friend whose car died. For whatever reason, she was deeply upset about it. She is normally a coper and unphased. Her DP reaction: silence. Not one word of support or comfort. It’s her teenage dd that stepped up instead.

Or it could be like loosing a very close friend or family member. Surely, even if you do lean on friends, your dh should be able to support you through it? Even if they can’t fix the issue.

Bow in RL, what happens is what you describe. Women get support somewhere else. Because they know their dh won’t be there fir them.

But the end result after years of women supporting men emotionally, supporting their relationship (eg with their family) etc… At some point, the trust is broken. Because if you know you can’t rely on your life partner when things go really down, why would you trust them for anything at all?
And that’s bad. For men and women.
(fwiw it’s true the other way around too)

Why can’t we find more men who are emotionally mature? Patriarchy, the way children ate raised, expectations, all of that plays a part. But it also means men making an effort. And it’s more comfortable not to than to put yourself in question.

I agree with that take too.

I think one important thing is that you BOTH made the effort to understand and change.

Unfortunately, it seems women are much more likely to make that effort than men (see the fa t it’s women who seek therapy. Much less likely to be men that need it just as badly).
In my case, I’m slowly dealing with childhood trauma, prob c-PTSD, and the many unhelpful ways I found to cope. I’m learning to find my voice too. And dh …. Doesn’t. Doesn’t want to put himself in question. (And god knows that he needs it)
The end is predictable I think.

Yes, you're right about that. It was actually me who started to talk about divorce first but it was my DH who really spurred the change. He said that this was all crazy because we love each other and that he didn't want to divorce. He started reading books, really reflecting on his behaviour and on mine, and our patterns and what we both really needed from each other.

Due to antiquated social and societal roles and expectations which are pushed on them from an early age. Boys don’t cry, real men don’t show emotion etc.

These things don’t change unless you push for change and expect it. I expect my partner to be supportive and emotionally literate. The more people that expect this of both sexes, and role model it for their children, the more likely future generations are to change.

I refused to settle for a partner who wasn’t capable of emotionally supporting me, and the argument that we “expect too much of the poor emotionally stunted men” is both condescending and infuriatingly excusive.

I agree with the notion that no one person can meet ALL of our needs, but for me it is really important that my husband can meet my emotional needs. He’s the one who is there right by my side through every part of my life, he’s the one I literally share my life with, so whether it is grief, finances, career decisions, family/friends, fertility etc, things I probably wouldn’t share with my friends, I need to know that he has my back & vice versa.

Agree with all of this.

On the latter part of your post, I am always astounded too by how many posters on here complain of having no conversation with their husbands, nothing in common, no emotional support, or being blindsided by him doing something that goes against the poster’s core values (e.g. voting Reform when the poster is a guardian-reading leftie).

I simply cannot imagine marrying someone I know so little. It’s the fact that we already have such low expectations of men emotionally/socially that actually leads to this. E.g. someone might think “Well he never speaks, but neither do most men, so I might as well marry this one”. Only to realise too late that that’s a serious compatibility issue you can’t just dismiss because “he’s a man”.

So in short - no, I don’t think we should lower our expectations of men - or anyone - emotionally!

Well.. I'm not a man, but 'emotional support' and 'empathy' are way WAY overrated, in my personal opinion.

I can't stand pointless whinging. Come, tell me your problem, I'll listen and we can come up with potential solutions together. Or come, whinge/rant about a problem just for ranting's sake. ONCE. I refuse to listen to the same shit again and again without zero steps from you to change the situation. I'm not some support animal, go whinge at a wall.

I'm in a reverse situation atm. I'm a female and my closest friend is male. Friends for almost 30 years, very close once, but I think I've finally had enough and I'm currently distancing myself.

He had the same few voes for the past maybe 15 years. Love-related (same person, not different partners), work-related and mental health related.

It's like the roles are reversed. I've listened to countless monologues about it, have had heart to hearts, offered so many potential solutions to his problems. Yet he does NOTHING at all. And then calls me 'cold' when I refuse to take in another bout of verbal diarrhoea.

What's the point of such 'support'? Give me a doer over a listener every day.

And then there's another trait, more common in women than men. I know a few. They create a whole scenario in their minds, down to the ways of how you should react and respond, what you should do. And then get pissy when you fail to read their mind and don't do 'the right thing'.

They are skills. We can all get better at if we want to. There is no biological or neurological reason men are unable. It's just not modelled,expected or the way boys and men are socialised.

My husband wanted to improve his emotional intelligence/emotional maturity/empathy and communication. It wasn't modelled at all to him growing up and he was socialised to think they were "weak" "feminine" traits/skills. So he has had lots of therapy and continues to. He is part of a men's group where he helps other men learn these skills. He sees it as vital so he can model and show our children as do I.
The lack of these skills only really became apparent when life got stressful and hard with a young family.

The men in my life growing up were emotionally immature (lots of the women too) so I didn't think it was common or possible to get that level of support,connection
,safety and empathy from men particularly. It never stopped me wanting and craving it. I am so uninterested in a relationship with someone who can't provide that.

I don't think we expect too much of men. We don't expect enough. Men particularly don't expect much at all from other men. That's where the change happens. Men need to be holding other men accountable.

I don't see it as a fixed ability. It's a skill and one that men are typically discouraged from practicing from a young age. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be aiming to get better at it for their own emotional wellbeing and to prevent the cycle being repeated in their own families.

I think people expect too much of people of both sexes. Men may have been socialised to be less emotionally continent but they don't have a monopoly on insensitivity and a lack of empathy. Women are equally capable of being insensitive and tone deaf.

@ComtesseDeSpair puts it really well in that part of the problem is a failure to communicate needs and expectations: people expect their minds to be read by their partners and friends and then get upset if this doesn't happen.

Sometimes I think people are generally over-reliant on both partners and friends and treat them as receptacles to dump all their anxiety and grief. In any close relationship there should be an expectation that sometimes you can share and offload but some people turn it into an art form.

If your entire experience of a relationship is someone moaning and offloading in a directionless fashion and making no attempt to develop a bit of self-reliance then it's hardly surprising that men and women get tired and shut down.

Do we sometimes expect too much of husbands on the emotional side, generally speaking?

No, the bar for many men is actually on the floor.

'Why can’t we find more men who are emotionally mature? Patriarchy, the way children ate raised, expectations, all of that plays a part. But it also means men making an effort. And it’s more comfortable not to than to put yourself in question'

Very well said. It's bloody HARD WORK to change yourself, and it's a lifelong process, but it can be done, whether you're a man or a woman. And it will be the best work you ever do

Expectations of men and boys are on the floor, and it does no one any favors at all

Isn't it odd that 2 x sexes so opposite to each other can actually be attracted to each other?
When my DW is emotional, like this woman or that woman is a bitch, and they are so unreasonable and demand so much of me etc etc etc... my way is to try to explain from the other persons side, she isn't trying to be nasty, maybe go for a different approach etc, then i am in the doghouse for not understanding. So my best solution is to keep quiet and try to be kind. But again this is another mistake as again I am not helping anything. So I just love her anyway.
I find gay guys are very empathetic. Maybe if you want empathy you should pick one of them?

My partner is entirely useless for emotional support. He expects it. But never gives it. It bothers me at times, others I just tell myself it's how he is.
It does upset me as when something has happened, he's naturally one of the first people I want to reach out to but I just know, it will leave me feeling rejected so I try to avoid doing it.
We have a good relationship in the main but he just is unable to be meet my emotional needs. It's actually refreshing to know it's not just him!

Thank you. It’s the societal expectation of how men should behave which exacerbates this. Be a brave boy, don’t cry, be strong etc. Telling women they need to be looked after.

My older brother and his husband have a strong, supportive relationship with excellent communication, as do my parents, and it was a great model for me growing up.

Luckily my husband is completely confident in his masculinity that he’s not afraid to show emotion, is excellent at supporting me when I need it, and our communication is strong and supportive.

Pick the partner you want, not the one you hope to have. If they’re not one of your best friends, why would you want to live with them and spend the rest of your life with them? Why set your bar so low?

I think you get the life you believe in. If you think men are shit and wired differently, have no redeeming qualities, and aren’t suited to childcare, then that’s probably what you’ll end up with. If you think they are loving and kind, supportive and share the physical and emotional load, then you’ll get one of those!

I think you might have just picked the wrong partner? It doesn’t have to be like that. I have to say my gay friends and family aren’t particularly empathetic, no more or less than heterosexuals I know.

No, I've got the right partner, nearly 30 years tells me that if she was the wrong one it wouldn't have lasted.

I think possibly we expect too much of people, not just men. What is all this "emotional support" we are supposed to need? Occasionally, perhaps, but I think a strong, independent woman (as I hope we all are) can generally navigate difficulties in life on a solo basis. If we become too dependent on, for example, a man, how will we cope if and when that man is no longer around? The thought of becoming too dependent really does bother me. We've all met older women who expected their husbands to do everything, and then fall apart when the husband dies. No, thanks!

This isn’t a man/woman thing. It’s just a relationship thing.

I’m a woman and when I read some of the ‘My DH isn’t emotionally supportive’ threads I frequently just think ‘Christ, you sound needy’. I’m good at analysis and problem-solving but not just at the ‘There, there, never mind’ stuff.

Hard really as you don't wanna over share with a friend as then they may gossip. At least the partner won't. But then yes expect to much of someone we already may know isn't good with the emotional stuff.