To wonder why civil service haters don't understand that cutting 10,000 jobs is going to hurt everyone

[Everythingisnumbersnow]

I can't believe Labour is doing what they're doing

Did you want more shit shows from the Tories? Or were you hoping for Reform?

In my year out I worked in a Benefits Office. OMG the inefficiency and pointless faffing was off the scale. Not to mention my EO was mildly drunk by mid afternoon every day.

My ex SIL and an ex boyfriend were also Civil Servants working for the Land Registry. They had endless days off sick (despite being perfectly healthy twenty somethings) and invented lots of office games just to pass the time as they were so under worked.

This was years ago but I very much doubt anything has changed?

I work for a Labour council so very little I’d imagine. I’m pretty sure all of the councils have that have gone bust were Labour led too.

The problems with the civil service are democracy and politicians. 😉

None of which has anything to do with the civil service, as you clearly work for local government, so are not a civil servant.

I managed 7 weeks at HMRC before I went running back to the private sector as fast as I could. The final straw for me, was when I suggested we used file dividers for legal bundles labelled ‘X, Y, Z’ as we had thousands of those, unused, because the lawyers liked to only use the ‘A, B, C’ ones.

My boss told me to get back in my box, and ordered thousands more full sets of file dividers, so the lawyers could use the ‘A,B,Cs’ whilst the ‘X, Y, Z’s gathered dust.

The American investment banks cull the bottom 5-10% performers every year. They should do the same in the civil service.

I know four people who work in the civil service who do fuck all work. They aren’t lazy they just get given so little to do. Cutting these useless jobs into much better than cutting vital services which is how governments of the past have dealt with debt. Bring it on. And I say that as someone who works in a university who is surrounded by people doing fuck all work.

Is that you Nadine? Still smarting eh? 😂

I was in this position. It was soul destroying. Every time I asked for more or tried to use my initiative I was shut down.

I was experienced, able, articulate, and passed several aptitude tests and have professional qualifications.

My job could have been done in day a week by a school leaver.

I once spent 2 weeks revising for an exam and no one noticed.

I gave it 6 months as I was promised improvements and when nothing was forthcoming then I found a new job where I have been for 10 years.

It was honestly awful. I strongly suggested my manager didn’t replace my role but she did.

Fucking twit.

And is it actually those people that the university is making redundant?

Wow OP I don't think I've ever come across such an entitled and misinformed series of posts on MN.

You do realise that civil servants are paid out the tax receipts from CORPORATE WORKERS - ie, companies that actually SELL a product or service for a PROFIT.

The Civil Service generates nothing. Nada. Zilch. It COSTS the tax payer MONEY to run each and every year. It is FULL to the BRIM of WASTRELS and waste-generating pointless activities and many on here agree with this sentiment.

I can only assume you've been sleeping under a rock for the past couple of months because DOGE run by Elon Musk in the USA - someone who generates a profit, who has been the most profitable man on this earth and pays a vast amount of tax and which pays for the civil service in the USA and enables the US government to run, has been following Milie's waste cutting example from Argentina.

You really should read up about Xavier Milie because it's quite the education in small government and reducing the budget deficit to the point that Argentina which has been a basket case of an economy (remember it going bankrupt and needing to be saved by the IMF? Thought not), for around 3 decades has finally produced a SURPLUS for the first time in many years.

This is nothing short of miracle and has been noted by ALL western government around the world. Love or loathe Milie and Musk, but this is what is coming and do you know why???

Why??

Because the USA is $37 TRILLION IN DEBT.

The UK is £3 TRILLION in debt.

If you don't end the gravy train at some point, there will be no more trains and certainly no more gravy. Ever. In fact there won't even be enough food to feed the little piggies and they will become weak and possibly perish. Goodbye capitalism, goodbye everything we've ever known. Hello gruesome country-wide poverty aka a bankrupt country.

That's what western economies are facing. Going BUST like Argentina.

Do you know what we pay every month in interest on our debt in the UK?

£100 billion each MONTH. This is unsustainable. Our interest bill is going up and up and up to the point that it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle of suicidal debt.

So the idea of a small state, a civil service reduced by 50%, yes 50% very much appeals to politicians because they'd like life to continue on as we know it and not plunge us into catastrophic financial crisis.

And those 10,000 people can go and find work in jobs that actually produce a PROFIT and pay some TAXES, which could go some way to paying our debts that we have accumulated through too many hand outs and too large a state, ie, too many civil servants doing not very much at all.

No a rising tide should not lift all boats, freeloading boats that don't contribute anything should be cut loose because they risk sinking the whole damned fleet.

Sorry @Everythingisnumbersnow but there are lots of people not doing much at work or doing pretty useless tasks all day. That applies to both public service and the private sector. I think there will be a lot of job losses over the next few years and a much higher rate of employment. Some public servants have been far too protected despite doing a very poor job or just calling in sick constantly. This then reduces the budget for those hard working public servants who perform vital jobs. I agree that people losing their jobs and income will reduce tax take, cause more business closures and therefore have a knock on effect on spending in a circular manner. I don't accept that this is a good reason to never cut back on waste though. What is more interesting is whether this will actually reduce the deficit spending.That seems unlikely.

It doesn't look as if Musk's DOGE efforts will cut the massive US deficit though.
I think it's unlikely in the UK too.
Let's see.

If you want to read up on Milie OP, this is an excellent article:

https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/12/10/mileis-creative-destruction/

Note, the IMF approves.

They could try to get jobs in a burgeoning arms industry - that’s a definite growth sector.

@Walkaround sad but true! Made me laugh but in a grim way!

It's a huge experiment. His approval ratings remain good though.

There is talk now in the USA of deliberately creating a recession for similar reasons.

Let's see...

Elon Musk is a risk taker. His risks pay off. I don't like him much and I don't like what he's doing but on the other hand, I can see that government debts are out of hand and going to sum zero. So far, no one found a solution. We do need some kind of action - we can't go on like this forever.

The pied piper must be paid.

I didn’t say they were. I was responding to OPs post about cutting 10,000 civil service staff. The numbers quoted above are ONS numbers. The NHS employs 1.5m or so…and so if the OP meant the NHS England cuts then 10,000 is even more of a rounding in terms of total NHS staff!

I agree with most of that. What is crystal clear is that the approach of the last 40+ years has not worked and that something needs to change. I don't like Trump or Musk but at least they are trying a new approach.

I worked for a local authority for a short while. It was absolutely appalling to see the inefficiency.

I’ve at no point said that I worked in the Civil Service, I said I worked in the public sector. It is all exactly the same though.

I work on a daily basis with Homes England, DEFRA and the Department for Communities and they are exactly the same level of waste and incompetence, just on a much bigger scale.

NHS England has been a burden on NHS services since it came into place. It's bureaucratic and expensive, so much so that it can't even buy medical products at tge price an NHS Trust can. NHS Trusts have also needed to employ many more non medical staff to cope with the bureaucracy too.

Im not in the detail of all this btw, but I'm sure there will be work to make sure the responsibilities that need to be performed centrally or regionally will be retained, possibly in local government, but yes, I'm looking forward to seeing the disaster the Torys brought in gone for good. It was the start of the disease that has seen many NHS services privatised.

Good riddance.

You’re still confused. No politician has specified 10,000 civil service posts will be cut - they’ve refused to put a number on that, they have just said reforms will likely lead to thousands of job cuts. I am sure they mean considerably more than 10,000 civil service jobs will ultimately go. The only numbers that can reliably be given are the number of people working in NHS England, which is a quango, and employs around 15,000 people, none of whom are civil servants and it’s NHS England’s scrapping that is generating all the discussion about 10,000 job losses in one go. It is not the same thing as “the NHS,” and is not part of the civil service, either. The NHS England role will be taken back under civil service control - no doubt by employing some former NHS England staff, thus increasing civil service numbers in the relevant department.

Except when talking about job losses in the civil service, it is all completely different.

The Tories wouldn't even do this.

An overhaul of MP's expenses and House Of Lords would be welcome