NHS England to go is Keir being unreasonable?

[43percentburnt]

I don’t work for the NHS but have friends who do (and are increasingly looking at leaving - in some cases to move abroad).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx29lrl826rt

Is the removal of NHS England a good thing? Or is this a Labour gimmick?

To include an Aibu for Keir -

Yes Keir - you are being unreasonable

Or

Good job Keir, please get rid of NHS England - you are NOT being unreasonable

Oh yes they can, labour was the one that messed it up via Tony Blair in the first place, they can always make things worse. You all lack imagination in here.

Hilarious how every comment in here is 'I know nothing about it but....'

Many data services are under it also which are vital for future planning.

thats pritty much the same with the political debates with america, we need better educated people or at least better research for the debating

Do you have an official reference for this list ?

apologies if it was posted already

Many data services are under it also which are vital for future planning.

Surely a couple of band 5 nurses can just do it in their tea breaks? If it's that easy.

You could use an Access database. I've seen it on my PC.

Whatever your solution, you should pitch it with the opening line "Surely it's just a matter of ..."

There is a difference between forms detailing medication given, treatment plans etc and excessive performance management. Performance management in general is complicated because you do want to know how well different trusts are doing and whether things are getting better or worse but you can end up measuring what is easy to measure rather than what is important to people. And then services end up reorientating their priorities to meet those "easy to measure" targets rather than what actually matters to people. There are good ways of doing it and bad ways basically. Patient satisfaction surveys of all different sorts seem to be a big thing at the moment in the NHS. I don't think its bad to do this sometimes - especially randomised surveys as a way of tracking peoples experiences. But lots of services duplicating this or too much surveying is wasteful and frustrating for patients/staff.

No, they’re not. Just as hopeless 🤷‍♀️🙄

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not but... nurses break time is for breaks. Not forms.

I work in admin. i do think that the majority of "penpushers" employed will be working hard and care about their jobs. But I experienced in (shock horror a private company) a situation where there was excessive concentration on meeting the new targets set by the new management system and the bells and whistles IT system. It started to feel like we were less there to make widgets, and more there to service the IT system. When really the IT system and the admin processes should have been there to support the central goal - making widgets, not the other way round. That sort of admin creep can easily happen and it does need controlling (its not fun for admin staff either). But I agree, its not fair to demonise staff members themselves or go for a DOGE style "burn everything to the ground".

Performance Management is the latest, so form filling to justify when your 15min appoint over run to 25mins.... 15mins isn't long enough to say "Hello how are you today" and it over run because the patient soiled themselves.... Yes its not my job to clean him up BUT the carer wont be there for another 4 hours.....

Do you want me to leave him in his own shit?

Justifying continuing therapy to non clinic assessors for people who cannot communicate their wishes etc, this takes the form of admin and meetings.. the end result is always the same, the medical need trumps the desire to cut costs.... pointless.

Two examples which i'm sure you'll try and pull apart....

With respect, those 'MP' queries are actually fielded on behalf of constituents/patients/families of patients where NHS service has fallen below expectations.

I'm not a Labour fan, but this is a good idea. It brings genuine accountability back to Ministers. They're going to beef up the regions.

It's got to be better than what we've got now!

Reform of the NHS was definitely a manifesto promise. Which is precisely what this is. It should have been done years ago or, better yet, never have been created in the first place.

Do you know which is more expensive? I always assume Civil Service T&Cs are more generous than the NHS but that maybe a 'grass is always greener' assumption.

How true that is sadly. Clinicians expected to do more and more.

The point is that if the Tories were to scrap NHS England the usual arguments would come out against them "nasty party", "NHS Privatisation", etc.

Labour are able to do it because they are seen as the party of the NHS.

The NHS was at its absolute best in 2010 when Andrew Lansley got his hands on it and spent £1.5 billion (that’s £2.7 billion now) restructuring it to make it more bureaucratic and inefficient. There are literally millions of posts on MN declaring that the NHS needs reform and now the process has begun nothing but whining.

Having completed a 2 year senior management secondment to NHSE, I think Starmer is absolutely correct to get rid of it. I haver never worked in an organisation so full of suited and booted bureaucrats,many on severely inflated wages, sitting in ivory towers making policies and decisions regarding operational health care. I couldn't wait for my secondment to finish!

Do NHS England staff currently get the same pension as those who work directly for the Government? Do they get 6 months full and 6 months half Sick pay at present?

What has that got to do with anything?

We do keep bullies though (just in case you thought we were perfect).

People I know who went to work for NHS England had three months of in class training etc when they started. Those who worked for the clinical part of NHS were given procedures to read then half an hour later were called onto the ward to do a procedure.
And the NHS England type had decent Christmas breaks

I imagine that some jobs won't be needed and their demise no great drama , and some will end up being recreated. It's always the way.

I think it won't always be entirely predictable which is which.

There are no front line staff in NHSE, none of them ever go near a patient. So the people you know are lying.

I guess she meant training in non-clinical things. Which is fair enough. But of course clinic staff working for the NHS will already have had medical training before working (at least I hope to god they do, if not we are in a worse state than anyone thought!) so its not directly comparable.

How could she have meant non clinical things when she said half an hour later were called onto the ward to do a procedure?