To ask what really combats misogyny? What can I do?

[seriouslysara]

Feeling miserable and angry after recent news stories, a sentence that's always true probably but right now I mean the vile cowardly man who took the lives of three loved and innocent women and the popularity of that awful content creator.

What can people do to make a difference and reduce violent misogyny? What actually helps? Are there examples of things in other countries that work or make it worse?

Here's everything I can think of:

1. Donate to refuges and campaigners
2. Raise these issues with our children and check what they're accessing online
3. Be a listening ear to friends in the hope they'd tell you if they were at risk
4. Campaign for better policing (new or different laws?)
5. Help spread useful resources and accurate info
6. Call out misogyny when I see it and when it's safe to
7. Try to support women owned businesses so more women have capital
8. Support organizations that give young people have opportunities so they're not radicalized?
9. Book self defense classes for our girls and their friends?

I want to direct my anger somewhere to something positive. A law to campaign to change? A cause to raise money for? An action of support or resistance? A career change to help people?

Genuine question. What can I do? What can we do?

Wow wrote the OP, went to bed and to work and blown away by the response. Thank you. It helps to feel less alone in this.

The themes coming through:-
1:- How to increase your odds safe personally and the role of your parents and then your parents

2:- Increasing women's capital to increase their power and choices, supporting women led businesses and organisations

3:- Calling out misogyny and poor behaviours, walking away from bad situations (relationships included) when possible

4:- How we raise our children

5:- Vigilance around rights

6:- Supporting and advising other women, being a safe haven for someone to tell

It's awful to realise how many people are at risk every day. I part want to set something up where we can all activate a bat signal and help each other when in danger but guess best to help by donating to existing charities.

I think that Mumsnet is fabulous support for women, it’s certainly helped me to leave an abusive relationship. Just keep posting and sharing your experiences, I think reading about other peoples actual experiences and reality shows that relationships with men aren’t really what they are cracked up to be in films /books etc. Women supporting other women strengthens all women

This is basically all happening already it’s nothing new

Or… not everyone is shallow?

I’m sure you do think your DD is gorgeous but you’re her mother, you would. I find your post a bit off.

Not to mention that the ‘not so conventionally attractive’ guys can be just as bad. The ‘Nice guys’ sub Reddit springs to mind.

I actually think women should be more shallow concerning men. Considering all the risks in partnering with a man it should be with someone (whether society thinks they are ugly or attractive is irrelevant) that you really really like.

Recent history suggests the most extreme misogyny comes from strange looking incel types.

And yes I agree.

Very much agree with @OutsideLookingOut :

I actually think women should be more shallow concerning men

@Wildflowers99 Quite literally here to listen and learn if there's more I can do. If you have suggestions I'm here to listen!

Good resources to follow?

I discovered David Challen on X last week (who has very powerful reasons to be interested in this) and find the things he shares useful.

Have constructive conversations with other women. Anything from "gals chats" in the pub to organised meetings in the local school. I have many of the former BUT they are not what might have been known as "bitching sessions" in more sexist times, they run the whole gamut from comments on individual men to discussions on how to re-organise our work practices to make them more female-friendly.

I think women are already doing this. That needs to go on and expand but I think at this point we need to involve men much more. They do need to start playing their part more - this actually comes from my husband. He has sisters and is an exceptionally fair and kind man, no obvious sexism there, but since having two daughters he regularly comments on how he sees the world differently. He says there are so many things he notices about how life is for girls and women that he just never noticed before. He has every respect for women and would always stand up for any obvious ill treatment he might see but it's more subtle than that. He sees now what people might call the micro-aggressions or the everyday sexism and is desperate for it not to happen to his daughters.

I've pointed out that his mother and sisters will have dealt with this all their lives, it's not like it's only just started happening and he agrees, but for some reason it just wasn't clear and noticeable to him then the way it is now he has daughters. I think this is what happens to most men. Yes, there are morons out there but most decent men just aren't aware of what's happening all around them, and nagging and calling them misogynists isn't making them understand.

Somehow they need to be involved in the subject in a welcoming and non-accusatory way, and we need to listen to their point of view as part of it. That way we can learn how to get the message across in a way they can understand and accept.

Oh yes of course we talk to and involve "our" men but discussing with each other gets things straight. You sound lucky. Most men only realise the problems we face when they're forced to, and by talking to each other as intelligent women we can sort out how best to make men aware of "life without a dick" as we called it at school. (Which had/has a double meaning.)

Teach your young children to give and receive a 'no' without any embarrassment or bearing a grudge.
Campaign against porn. Make it illegal to access porn in a public place, including schools and public transport.

Do not have children with subpar misogynistic men. Let the rest die lonely if you want. Only reproduce with men willing to confront other men on their misogyny. Everything is all talk but men in general respect other men so if they can stand up to another one he might have a chance of being okay.

My husband joined the women’s network at work as an ally. I have really ribbed him about it but he has two daughters and he wants to stand with women. He is senior in the company and calls out misogyny when he sees it. Men have to influence this and not be passive bystanders.

Agree but there are many posts on here on the subject of shared leave (why should I give away half my leave), or stay at home parents (man should work and provide, or kids need mums to be at home)

I don’t think there’s much appetite on mumsnet for equality of parental leave and caring.

Women have maternity leave to recover from gestation and childbirth; demanding they give some of that up is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

And that ribbing is why many man do not engage. Why the hell would you laugh at someone trying to be an ally??

We really need MEN to stand up.
When women try to tackle things head on, it comes across as a vested interest thing - we’re only upset because they’re talking about us/working against us.
We need men to call it out in other men and boys. Until this happens, nothing will improve.

My employer gives fathers 6 months paid paternity leave (full pay). I wonder if they have ever, or could be persuaded, to survey the mothers about the split of childcare/domestic duties after that because I don’t know of a single man that’s gone part time afterwards…….. 🤔

This is one we experienced with our DD. Her boyfriend had gotten very insecure and started calling her names and telling her what she could wear and trying to control where she went and who she went with.

His narcissistic rage came out in force when he was dumped. It is a real problem and as others said his parents have no real clue how badly he behaved even though I know his Mum well.

Fawning isn’t a social response though it is a threat response, a survival response and whereas for men fight or flight is the dominant survival response I think fawning is the dominant female survival response. We are biologically as much as socially programmed to #bekind in response to the threat of male violence. Ironically I think it does as much harm as good because inevitably it brings along denial and victim blaming with it which overall leads to more harm.

Encourage men to speak out about it.

Women aren't listened to because you know. Misogyny. Patriarchy.

Influential men at the top of society need to start calling it out. Why don't they?

Because they worry they won't be liked. And it serves them

We will never see men with placards protesting about the actions of other men.

Or men on the news or on social media telling other men to stop misogynistic behaviour.

Where's the challenge to Andrew Tate?

I have zero tolerance for it in my personal life. And I mean ZERO. I think if misogynists were shunned the way lepers were in time past it would help.

I recall years ago going on a few dates with a guy who I declined to see again because he was referring to a friend of his who was, in his words “whining like a woman”.

And yet friends told me I was being too “picky” and “sensitive” in blocking him.

Also I try to support as many female led things as possible.

I mean that is clearly not true butThe difference is misogyny and sexism are normalised in a way that general crime is not.

And when it comes to misogyny and sexism and gender equality men have no interest in what women have to say. So this is an issue that only men can fix.