To ask what really combats misogyny? What can I do?

[seriouslysara]

Feeling miserable and angry after recent news stories, a sentence that's always true probably but right now I mean the vile cowardly man who took the lives of three loved and innocent women and the popularity of that awful content creator.

What can people do to make a difference and reduce violent misogyny? What actually helps? Are there examples of things in other countries that work or make it worse?

Here's everything I can think of:

1. Donate to refuges and campaigners
2. Raise these issues with our children and check what they're accessing online
3. Be a listening ear to friends in the hope they'd tell you if they were at risk
4. Campaign for better policing (new or different laws?)
5. Help spread useful resources and accurate info
6. Call out misogyny when I see it and when it's safe to
7. Try to support women owned businesses so more women have capital
8. Support organizations that give young people have opportunities so they're not radicalized?
9. Book self defense classes for our girls and their friends?

I want to direct my anger somewhere to something positive. A law to campaign to change? A cause to raise money for? An action of support or resistance? A career change to help people?

Genuine question. What can I do? What can we do?

Yes I agree with your point. I was just saying people do do this (which I disagree with).

You said the ‘model of feminism’ that ‘we’ follow was flawed. Feminism seeks to establish sexual equality. Or do you imagine it’s something entirely different?

I escaped a DV relationship. My ex stalks and abuses me on a forum connected to my favourite hobby.

He is allowed to do this as he refers to "the ex". He doesn't specifically name me, but it's obviously about me.

The law allows him to do this as he could easily claim he was mouthing off about a different ex. The Police and forum owner will not do anything because of this.

Dd and her friends bumped into one of the boys mothers at a party who twittered “ooh bet all you girls love Jack so handsome plays rugby”. None had the heart to tell her nope they all hated him as he’s a total misogynistic dickhead.

Absolutely- well said. I refuse to support any scheme or organisation that claims to support women and girls but then allows male-born persons to apply/compete. Looking at you, the entire UK HE system, but particularly large Russell Group institutions that offer bursaries to encourage women into STEM subjects but open them up to anyone who ‘identifies’ as a woman. I am sick of this.

Feminism in principle does as a whole, but I was referring to one specific model, which I feel doesn’t. It’s a ‘play them at their own game’ feminism, which is doomed to failure.

Absolutely right. We have moved a long way from the overt sexism (and racism) that I can remember growing up with in the 70s, but it depresses me that there is still so much further to go.

It is down to us men to support, encourage and listen to women, and to call out bad male behaviour.

Ethnic minorities are not an oppressor group so this comparison does not work.

If you were to compare, say, white people then actually lots of us do similarly believe that racism (that which is perpetrated by white people) can only end if white people as a group reject the behaviour from within their own ranks.

and see everyone is quick to blame other men, but I think women and mothers are a big influence too. These lazy useless men who think they are entitled to anything are raised by mothers who think the same. Perfect example.

This would have been a wonderful opportunity to make that mother take notice of how very wrong she is.

I know it's a big ask for young girls to be so forthright with an adult. Especially at a party. But that's exactly what's needed in cases like this. There are so many parents who say "not my Nigel" when Nigel is actually a piece of work.

I hope one day your daughter and friends feel brave enough to push off the bonds of enforced politeness, and tell the mum that the good looks are wasted as he doesn’t have a decent personality to back them up.

It’s not a criticism but I do think the expectation on females to be kind and polite is one of our greatest battles, and even been a contributing factor to some femicides.

Raised by mothers, or raised by parents? No mention of the father at all here when apportioning blame. Do we really think that the average misogynistic incel teenager has a father who is A. present and B. respectful and views women as equals?

Zero tolerance for men's bullshit.

You see so many women on this forum who sound like great human beings but are putting up with lazy, selfish, abusive, porn sick men.

We need to educate and support girls better when it comes to relationships and sex.

Call out every single bit of everyday sexism you see.

I think it is built in to our biology but I think some things help, like communities that value everyone, good leadership and discipline, clear boundaries of behaviour, forgiveness, rehabilitation of offenders, valuing ourselves and having respect for others. Healthy societies healthy relationships.

Yep.

My husband takes a proactive role in typically female stuff like baking for the school bake sales, volunteering at that stuff, promoting stuff at work that his employer is doing to support women and actively mentors all of his staff (male and felmale).

I make sure to do some of the more stereotypical stuff like DIY and washing and servicing the car.

We send our kids to dance and football. We talk about how things are not for boys or girls.

I think this stuff is important not only in shaping our kids but for them and us to be seen by others doing this stuff as it challenges their world view.

I also correct verbal slips like "male nurse" or "lady electrician".

Encourage the men in your life to take a stand. Men listen to men. I can't stand lad culture.

It's not as simple as that. The whole of society would need to change radically to make it that easy to just walk away in every circumstance. The housing system, the NHS, "big pharma", welfare, the justice system, cultural norms, and about 100 other things. The women who stay aren't just pushovers who are happy to tolerate "men's bullshit".

Imagine a woman who is in a relationship, everything is OK. She has a baby and ends up experiencing crippling PND. She can barely function at home, let alone go back to work. At the same time, her partner has become abusive (it is not uncommon for abuse to begin around the time a woman becomes pregnant or gives birth). How does she leave? Where does she go and how does she support herself and a baby, both financially and physically? It's all very well saying women should leave, and encouraging them to LTB on every other MN thread, but it's not practical because the framework for them to safely leave a relationship and live independently is just not there.

Help women grow their assertiveness.
Nothing will ever change until women speak for themselves.

Dd and her friends are absolutely gorgeous but I have noticed their boyfriends ..now they are late teens are not conventionally good looking . Then I twigged. They are dating the nice boys. The handsome rugby playing misogynists are not getting the girls.

Demand that the men in your life lead by example - your husband, partner, brother. Make them think about how they treat women - and how their daughters may be treated in the future. Support and advocate for women fleeing DA. Model gender nonconforming female roles.

Keep men accountable for their actions and words. Mental health, difficult childhood, neurodiversity are NOT an explaination for abuse.

Make sure all adult relationships are equal and stop showing children unhealthy relationships

Think carefully before having children with someone

Be a fully independent financially responsible grown up

I'd be interested to hear your new idea. If you don't want to put it on here, pm me.

Teach our young girls to take absolutely no shit whatsoever from men, and to leave and ignore at the very first red flag

Teach our boys that all humans deserve equal respect. Point out sexism and be scathing about it.

Keep all kids off the internet as long as possible.

I think your second point is really really valid.

So many kids growing up seeing toxic behavior from men, and seeing mum put up with it, to a more or lesser extent.

Don't have kids with assholes. Starve the assholes out. Don't expose a child to asshole behavior and certainly never let a child see anyone putting up with asshole behavior.

A problem with the "ask men to speak up to their mates about it" approach is that the somewhat decent men and the potentially violent misogynists aren't necessarily moving in the same social circles.