To think our quality of life can’t keep going up forever?

[Wildflowers99]

I saw a post on a thread which said if you have 3 children (for example) you NEED 4 bedrooms, because children sharing a room is unacceptable in terms of their quality of life. And another saying being able to eat things like peppers out of season is essentially a right, and therefore they should have a price cap.

It got me thinking because what we expect as a basic quality of life seems very very different to even 50 years ago. But the problem is with the advent of climate change, cost of living, ageing population and so on, is it realistic for expectations to keep going up? Have we now reached a point where our quality of life will have to plateau or even reverse a bit because the economy and world cannot support what we have come to expect?

Hope that makes sense, I’m a bit zombified after a 5am start with my toddler…

I think with the current state of housing, it will become increasingly difficult and unaffordable for many people to be so inflexible about bedroom numbers/sizes. Overcrowding is already a major issue in the more unaffordable parts of the UK, especially where there is also a social housing/private rental shortage. Most larger families (with 3+ children) that I know already have siblings share rooms, and this is a fairly affordable part of the Midlands.

What remains to be seen, is whether he present shortage will see the return of multi-generational living, with grandparents, parents and children choosing to live together, as already happens in many parts of the world.

I agree. I think people are so entitled in their outlooks and take modern comforts as essentials. I always try to appreciate the basics. You don’t have to look too far in this world to realise how lucky your standard of living is.

I agree we have come to expect far too much. People talk about high COL and food costs but then expect to be able to buy pineapples from Malaysia and strawberries in February. Everyone also expects to be able to afford to eat out, get their hair done in salons, have an annual holiday, own multiple pairs of shoes/handbags/coats/whatever and so on. Basically people think they should be able to afford to spend a lot on what are essentially lifestyle items/choices and then begrudge spending much on the basics of living such as housing, food, energy etc. Years ago these basic costs would have used up the vast majority of most people’s wages and people didn’t buy new outfits for a wedding or attend expensive hen dos or have pricey tech or get gel nails done etc. Now if you can’t afford those latter items you feel hard done by but it’s crazy really what we have come to expect to be able to spend.

As an Asian, I can see the UK is becoming steadily Asian!

Do people expect this though? There is a housing crisis, young people aren't having dc let alone 3 & life expectancy is reducing.

You are right. The problem is how many voters are going to accept this low-growth reality as something inevitable, or blame the rich/ immigrants /politicians , etc.

Years ago these basic costs would have used up the vast majority of most people’s wages and people didn’t buy new outfits for a wedding or attend expensive hen dos or have pricey tech or get gel nails done etc.

What do you mean by years ago? tech is much cheaper now than it was in the past so are clothes..,

Standards of living have been in decline for a number of years. People's expectations are catching up.

The problem is how many voters are going to accept this low-growth reality as something inevitable, or blame the rich/ immigrants /politicians , etc.

Very few considering everything is the fault of the boat people.

Is the “quality of life going up” in the room with us? It’s been going steadily downhill since I started working over 2 decades ago!

When I was debating having a third DC I posted on a thread on here and was told by multiple people that I shouldn’t have a third unless I was able to afford for them to:
Have their own room
Go on expensive days out
Have an annual holiday abroad
Do various paid extra curricular activities
Have birthday parties every year, tech as teenagers, the right trainers etc
And lots more. People on here are always saying kids are expensive, they’re not really (other than childcare) but people spend a fortune on what is actually not essential.

I think people are so entitled in their outlooks and take modern comforts as essentials

So what does this look like? The NHS is becoming unsustainable with the ageing population, are people entitled to expect care and medicine to simply prolong their lifestyle?

I mean that years ago people didn’t have much disposable income leftover to spend on clothes and tech and other lifestyle items. Obviously much tech is relatively new but for example, for years washing machines were luxury items which people went without if they couldn’t afford them. The working classes spent the majority of their income covering their basic living needs. Middle class professionals may have had a bit more spare money but were often very careful with it and might buy for example a carefully chosen dining table or sofa suite and then look after it and keep it for 20 years but now the expectation would be that you’d change furniture more often to keep up with trends/fashion. Same with clothes.

@BigRenoLittleBudget but posters like to be contrary so they tell you that you shouldn't have a dc unless you can give them a deposit etc but on other threads they would criticise you for expecting help from family with a deposit. You need to take it with a pinch of salt.

People on here are always saying kids are expensive, they’re not really (other than childcare) but people spend a fortune on what is actually not essential.

Most people are spending a fortune on childcare. I think it's odd to extrapolate MNs responses to real life.

@BigRenoLittleBudget can you link to that please? everything i've seen is that younger generations have less disposable income after housing vs previous generations.

I think in the past people saved for things and items were built to last. Now people generally seem to go out and buy what they want when they want, and there is more emphasis on having the latest fashion, gadget etc. I think the a major influence on quality of life is social media. People had less to compare with before, whereas now it's social media influence a lot of these trends and people thinking having items will make them happier and improve their quality of life.

If you look at national debt and even the stuff off balance sheet, the pensions for an aging population we're shafted. We might get pensions, I doubt our kids will there's not a chance our grandkids will. The way of life we have will have to change massively over the next 100 years, but no idea how.

Do people think nobody saves to buy things today?

If you look at national debt and even the stuff off balance sheet, the pensions for an aging population were shafted. We might get pensions, I doubt our kids will there's not a chance our grandkids will. The way of life we have will have to change massively over the next 100 years, but no idea how.

We are fucked but I suppose people will have to get used to living without a washing machine etc. How progressive!

20 years ago no one would have batted an eye lid at siblings sharing a bedroom. It wouldn't be unusual to share a car between a household. Spending 100s of pounds on botox and filler wasn't the norm, expensive beauty treatments were reserved for the rich and famous or very wealthy. Now lots of women in low paid jobs have these treatments and have nails done regularly. I think expectations on society have increased, leading people to think that they have a lower quality of life.

We are seeing a decline of living standards caused by steep inflation in all those things which are basics in life, housing, food and fuel. But an increase in expectation of what is considered a reasonable standard of living caused by intense media consumption.

Juggling the two is causing a huge degree of status anxiety for society and it makes us less resilient to meet the challenge.

Some people seem to use a compensatory tactic of suggesting that things they cannot afford (the basics of affording another child) are out of reach because they have higher expectations of luxury than other people.

But dc still share today, mine do!

Spending 100s of pounds on botox and filler wasn't the norm, expensive beauty treatments were reserved for the rich and famous or very wealthy.

Is it the norm? People spent more on cigarettes & alcohol probably in the past.

It's not so much that we need to keep up with fashion/trends but it's also the fact that everything is poorly made. My grandparents bought a sofa in the early 00s to replace the one they had in the 60s. They still have it and, aside from needing reupholstering, it lasted every well.
We have a 5-year-old sofa which is sagging from overuse. I will more than likely re-web it eventually but the cost of re-webbing and re-upholstering afterwards (and I do have the skills and equipment) is probably close to the cost of buying a new sofa, if not more expensive.
Same with clothes. It pretty much irrelevant how much you pay for clothes, they don't last regardless of whether it's Vivienne Westwood or Primark.
Washing machines... Yes, they were a luxury but you could live without one because you had a free human washing machine in a shape of a housewife. I remember my (working) mother doing laundry by hand at weekends. Washing bedding in a bathtub with a washing board and tallow soap? No, thank you.

Some people seem to use a tactic of suggesting that things they cannot afford (the basics of affording another child) are out of reach because they have higher expectations of luxury than other people.

Indeed

Yes, they were a luxury but you could live without one because you had a free human washing machine in a shape of a housewife

More mothers work now