To think our quality of life can’t keep going up forever?

[Wildflowers99]

I saw a post on a thread which said if you have 3 children (for example) you NEED 4 bedrooms, because children sharing a room is unacceptable in terms of their quality of life. And another saying being able to eat things like peppers out of season is essentially a right, and therefore they should have a price cap.

It got me thinking because what we expect as a basic quality of life seems very very different to even 50 years ago. But the problem is with the advent of climate change, cost of living, ageing population and so on, is it realistic for expectations to keep going up? Have we now reached a point where our quality of life will have to plateau or even reverse a bit because the economy and world cannot support what we have come to expect?

Hope that makes sense, I’m a bit zombified after a 5am start with my toddler…

I certainly agree that we need to overcome our assumption of perpetual growth and, in terms of society as a whole, learn to live with less. There are multiple reasons why but climate change is of course the big one.

But you can't get far talking about "society as a whole" before you have to address the question of inequality, and on what basis resources are allocated to different individuals or groups.

And we know that inequality is increasing. It's measurable, and has been measured. So how much of the adjustment to living standards that will be necessary should be met by everybody becoming poorer - including those who are already really poor - and how much by bringing levels of inequality back to something more like they were before Thatcher, so that the reduced size of the pie doesn't actually impact too much upon those with the smallest pieces?

I think one reason politicians don't like to talk about this is because both of the available options seem impossible to accept for different reasons. Either the wealthiest are going to have to give up a LOT of their wealth, or everybody is going to have to give up some and those already on the breadline will fall below it. (And if you look at it in global terms, which climate change forces us to do, "the wealthiest" may well include most of us in the UK.)

Already have, upthread.

Sadly I think that most people's quality of life will be taking a nosedive pretty soon as the effects of global warming continue to escalate.

@SovietSpy I also think it's very much a case of others should expect less but not me which is of course part of the issue.

Boomers spent money on things that people now don't though. For example, a spare tea set that's never used, but sits in a cabinet. A front room to entertain guests, but never used otherwise. What's the cost of a grandfather clock compared to a watch or just looking at your mobile phone?

I was born end of 63. My first house was furnished from Ikea. I never had a spare dinner service in a cabinet. I had black industrial shelves with books on.

And as for a fucking grandfather clock😂😂😂

And we know that inequality is increasing. It's measurable, and has been measured. So how much of the adjustment to living standards that will be necessary should be met by everybody becoming poorer - including those who are already really poor - and how much by bringing levels of inequality back to something more like they were before Thatcher, so that the reduced size of the pie doesn't actually impact too much upon those with the smallest pieces?

I think many are dissatisfied that things are so unequal.

I find it hard to spend money on me, I was in Asda today and looked at some pyjamas and I thought well £14 isn't too bad then I realised the pieces were sold separately and a pair of pyjamas was £28. I could afford them but honestly the thought of £28 on pyjamas horrified me.

Yes but a TV or video would last years and there would be just one for the family to share

Many kids now even the ones in crap housing have multiple consoles, monitors, keyboards, phones, headphones, earbuds etc etc. That's before the family TV and shared tech stuff.

Clothes are cheaper but everyone has masses. That's why Vinted and eBay exist. Plus charity shops/ Facebook selling/ car boots/ charity clothes fairs endless sources.

I read an article that said tower hamlets has something like 20 thousand homeless families and have identified 11 thousands ling term emtpy homes of people that own them but dont live in them and rarely visit.
Where I live there are thousands of 4 bed detached properties occupied by retired couples.
Something will have to give to put things right.

I'm ten years older, I aspired to Habitat even though I couldn't afford it.

Yes, I agree with you OP. It often strikes me in particular when people talk about holidays. People seem to expect at least one holiday abroad per year, sometimes more. It’s not always financially realistic, and it’s definitely not environmentally sustainable for everyone to be doing this, yet people see it as a right.

If quality of life has reached its peak now then stop the world, I want to get off! Here, we are a 2 adult, 2 children household. Both of us work our arses off and just about manage to pay the basics. We've no WiFi which makes people shocked and appalled when they hear. We've 1 car. If you are talking about going back 50 years ago, there was 1 person working and 1 person doing the house/child work. I would love the opportunity to stay at home and raise my children and be house proud, instead of shipping them off to childcare which we have no choice over because we need my income. Our quality of life sucks. So many of my friends are hating the daily grind. This can't be the peak!

"People are also seeing better standards in other countries with lower tax rates and wondering what the hell is going wrong in the UK."

Which countries have better standards with lower tax rates?

I live in a 4 bed detached house. I've said about downsizing in another thread so sorry for repeating but if we moved it would probably be to a bungalow (if I could persuade DH to do it as he's disabled and can't face it.) So if you add up the costs of selling up and buying you have to budget for estate agent, solicitor, survey, stamp duty, removals firm (I couldn't do it myself and would need a full job with help packing up etc) then you look at things like we had our bathroom redone for DH and his needs, new boiler 18 months ago so might have to do them again. Of course we might need to decorate and have new flooring. By the time you add it up I don't think we could afford to downsize.

It's all about the inequality, stupid...
With the increases in tech and productivity we've seen in recent decades, everyone should be getting richer. But we're not, because the rich are buying everything up. Gary Stevenson does a pretty good job of describing what's going on

h

Everything else is a distraction

But only for a few years.

By the time you add it up I don't think we could afford to downsize.

Probably more affordable than upsizing though!

I don't think it's about that though; I think it's about people becoming too materialistic, not being able to deal with delayed gratification and not appreciating the simple things. I don't think it's a surprise that despite the supposed increase in living standards, people are actually less happy.

Why aren't some people happy with a walk and a picnic in the countryside* now as a day out at the weekend, for example? Why does it have to involve an expensive trip out including buying expensive food?

*Replace with whatever free thing you have nearby

I don't think it's about that though; I think it's about people becoming too materialistic, not being able to deal with delayed gratification and not appreciating the simple things. I don't think it's a surprise that despite the supposed increase in living standards, people are actually less happy.

I think people are less happy because they are more tired & more stressed not because they are materialistic

I definitely see it in Essex lol

If you are talking about going back 50 years ago, there was 1 person working and 1 person doing the house/child work.

About half of married women worked in the 1970s.

I don’t know where in the U.K. you are, but since I finished uni and started work, quality of life has very definitely gone down.

I was genuinely better off with higher % disposable income as a graduate student than now.

Also if people are claiming a sodding washing machine constitutes a luxury then we’re way more stuffed than I even I thought. Washing before washing machines was a laborious, often all day, miserable task, usually undertaken by the woman of the house who was also doing everything else and probably trying to cram a few hours of paid work in somewhere to supplement what her gobshite husband was drinking out his wages. It’s not something to bloody romanticise.

About half of married women worked in the 1970s.

Not mothers though, that was more like 24% & the poster referenced dc.

My dad shared a room with 4 brothers and loved it! Great fun. Do that now and some people will accuse you of child abuse. Despite not having much money my dad always said I had a very privileged upbringing because I had my own room. It was tiny though! We do need to lower expectations. Holidays abroad are not a right.

Yes exactly. My parents are similar. As arw pretty much 50 percent of their whole road of 300 huge houses! I really don't know what the answer is but surely there should be incentives to downsizing and enabling social mobility for the families struggling to find housing. Noone should have to give up their hard earned property but incentives could be an attractive option to many.