To think our quality of life can’t keep going up forever?

[Wildflowers99]

I saw a post on a thread which said if you have 3 children (for example) you NEED 4 bedrooms, because children sharing a room is unacceptable in terms of their quality of life. And another saying being able to eat things like peppers out of season is essentially a right, and therefore they should have a price cap.

It got me thinking because what we expect as a basic quality of life seems very very different to even 50 years ago. But the problem is with the advent of climate change, cost of living, ageing population and so on, is it realistic for expectations to keep going up? Have we now reached a point where our quality of life will have to plateau or even reverse a bit because the economy and world cannot support what we have come to expect?

Hope that makes sense, I’m a bit zombified after a 5am start with my toddler…

I’m not arguing that people used to manage to resist the urge to spend lots of money on tech and now they can’t resist that urge. Obviously most tech we have now didn’t exist even fairly recently. I’m saying that now, stuff like tech is a category of spending that people expect to be able to afford whereas it just wasn’t there before to spend on OR if it did exist, and people couldn’t afford it, then they just wouldn’t have it as they didn’t have the offer of a credit card or Klarna. This applies to a lot of things. There is so much we can spend money on now that didn’t previously exist.

Tech
Botox and beauty treatments
subscriptions - Apple Music, Spotify, Netflix, gym memberships, prime etc
Fast fashion - clothes have got cheaper but people have more extensive wardrobes than they used to
Travel particularly international
Other luxury goods which is a rapidly growing sector

I appreciate this sounds odd but I am glad I grew up in the 80s in a council house in what would be classed by today’s standards as poverty. I was happy as I had my family, I had a (very tiny) room, toys, homemade clothes and all homemade basic seasonal food. I didn’t at the time feel deprived. It’s given me such a good grounding and I appreciate all the things I have now.

@strappyshoe I can remember when tech was expensive. Mobile phones were few and far between and were enormous.
A PC at that time would have been about an eighth of the average salary.

They are greener than hand washing. I have one in my rented flat that the LL wasn't ever sure worked, so it wouldn't have been factored into the cost of the rent. I agree it's not totally necessary, particularly for singles and couples, but is useful and not really a big luxury.

Of course they weren't.
But as their quality of life increases, they will have more options and won't accept being paid cray.
So the multi nationals will go chasing the next worse off country until that one too becomes expensive eg India.
The UK's manufacturing heyday was when workers had no rights and were paid in pennies. And as we slide down the rankings of rich countries and can't afford benefits or pensions, people here will be willing to work in unpleasant jobs for little money and no security. And the circle carries on.

"stuff like tech is a category of spending that people expect to be able to afford"

And quite rightly because it's necessary for so many things.

@soupyspoon
They could be taken to view possible homes Escape to the Country style, and be forced to choose between a terrace with a small kitchen next to a road (gasp) and a new build semi with no period features and an overlooked garden (faints)

There is so much we can spend money on now that didn’t previously exist.

But how would you apply for a job or do many other things without a phone or access to the internet these days?

There is so much we can spend money on now that didn’t previously exist.

Expenditure does change though. As I only ready said look at alcohol consumption, pubs closures etc. record shops & vinyl vs Spotify. Cinema visits vs Netflix.

Boomers spent money on things that people now don't though. For example, a spare tea set that's never used, but sits in a cabinet. A front room to entertain guests, but never used otherwise. What's the cost of a grandfather clock compared to a watch or just looking at your mobile phone?

already said

Boomers spent money on things that people now don't though. For example, a spare tea set that's never used, but sits in a cabinet. A front room to entertain guests, but never used otherwise. What's the cost of a grandfather clock compared to a watch or just looking at your mobile phone?

Presumably they cost pennies.

And as we slide down the rankings of rich countries and can't afford benefits or pensions, people here will be willing to work in unpleasant jobs for little money and no security. And the circle carries on.

Well the one difference today is much of the west is suffering a change of demographics so some young people will be enticed to other countries eg Portugal with their low taxes for under 30s.

I wonder if those expecting pensions will be labelled entitled when they complain about the lack of one.

It's not like any of it's making us happier.

I agree in a way. I also think we’ve lost the work drive. My grandad and dad started work at 14. My dad is still working now at 75. I started at 15. Only part time in a Little Chef but I paid for all my social life and for nice clothes. Youngsters these days find it really hard to get jobs and often don’t want them.

working weekend shifts for a number of years whilst still in full time education is tantamount to abuse on men sometimes. I employed a young chap at 16. He worked around 5 hrs at a weekend pls more in the holiday. In his mid twenties he and his partner are now in a position where he’s a policeman and they’re about to buy a house with a chunky deposit he saved up. Yes he has been able to live at home whilst doing so.

I can remember when tech was expensive. Mobile phones were few and far between and were enormous. A PC at that time would have been about an eighth of the average salary.

So can I but today you can buy a TV in argos for £100

Agree with many of your points, I know three separate friends who are constantly bemoaning that they can't afford to buy a house. A bit of probing for two of them reveals they can afford to buy a house, just in the wrong area - and when I say wrong area, I'm talking about the "wrong" end of sleepy villages and small towns. The third hopes to buy a four bed house (why? No idea. Childless couple), but could very easily buy a 2 or 3 bed - except that's not good enough.

To each their own and it's not that I think they should buy a home they don't love, but the constant complaints do ring a little hollow.

I think anyone who doesn't think eyelash extensions, nails, eyebrow treatments, hair etc is insanely prevalent probably just move in middle class circles. IME it's unusual amongst my middle class friends to get much done except maybe nails and eyebrows, but the vast majority of my working class friends shell out loads of money for regular eyelashes, nails, filler, eyebrow lamination, semi-permanent make-up - you name it.

Having that much disposable income to spend on beauty treatments would have been utterly unthinkable to my grandparents.

@Gwenhwyfar , Boomers are too young for those.

I do agree with some of the points but it's difficult to compare life now to how it was 50 years ago. The world is completely different.

A poster mentioned a coat costing a whole paycheck. And clothing was more expensive, but it also lasted longer. I think in "call the midwife" (the book) the author talks about how to worked out cheaper to buy fabric and get clothes tailored.

Food is cheap, too cheap really. But then housing is ridiculous.

A basic internet connection, an email account and a basic smart phone are not that expensive but I agree they are essentials now. More people have a smart phone than a landline and rightly so as they are more useful in many ways. But most tech is not essential, including

air pods
ipads
MacBooks (basically anything made by Apple)
games consoles, PlayStations etc
big tvs
also a lot of home tech is popular but not essential like coffee machines, air wraps etc

I work in higher ed and a lot of my students worry about money and often say they can’t afford things. But equally almost all of them have MacBooks (which are in no way essential for the course, a basic laptop would be fine and a third of the cost) plus often AirPods and smart watches.

Depends entirely what you consider to be "quality of life" I guess.

I'm at my most content when on my allotment, or snoozing on the sofa after glass of wine on a Sunday or a lie in, or cuddling my dogs.

Sure, we're incredibly lucky to have done well in our respective careers and can pretty much pick and choose what we like but I could live quite happily without the material goodies, and in the past when living from pay check to paycheck I still got the same enjoyment from the same things, whether in the garden, walking the dogs or picking blackberries.

Appreciating the important stuff, the small stuff really is what gives quality of life. Not stuff you buy.

air pods
ipads
MacBooks (basically anything made by Apple)
games consoles, PlayStations etc
big tvs
also a lot of home tech is popular but not essential like coffee machines, air wraps etc

Who is arguing a coffee machine or a Playstation is essential though? A laptop is for student but any brand will do, how do you know their air pods aren't knock offs?

But to answer to the "big" question in your post - I think our quality of life can and should continue to rise forever. Isn't that essentially the point of it all? To build better futures for our children?

However, spending 100s of £ a month on beauty treatments might be a privilege, but I don't think it actually improves your quality of life - probably the opposite, actually.

When I was a kid an inside loo was luxury. I tell you walking the length of the back yard after dark in winter holding your torch and then facing the spiders was no fun. On the otherhand as a kid reading the bits of New of the World stories that had been cut up for toilet paper could be fascinating. It was always the juiciest bit that you couldn't find though.

@strappyshoe Using those figures, a home computer would be about £5k today.

A friend used to volunteer in a foodbank, and she gave up after seeing so many people coming in who were on decent salaries but spent it on things like fake fingernails and flashy tech.

The response will be to have fewer children, not bigger houses. The more developed and educated a country becomes, the fewer children families have. 3 children families will reduce.