To think our quality of life can’t keep going up forever?

[Wildflowers99]

I saw a post on a thread which said if you have 3 children (for example) you NEED 4 bedrooms, because children sharing a room is unacceptable in terms of their quality of life. And another saying being able to eat things like peppers out of season is essentially a right, and therefore they should have a price cap.

It got me thinking because what we expect as a basic quality of life seems very very different to even 50 years ago. But the problem is with the advent of climate change, cost of living, ageing population and so on, is it realistic for expectations to keep going up? Have we now reached a point where our quality of life will have to plateau or even reverse a bit because the economy and world cannot support what we have come to expect?

Hope that makes sense, I’m a bit zombified after a 5am start with my toddler…

Those blueberries were probably picked by somebody in Peru earning very little.

It's called globalisation, what are you using to type these posts? Do you think people who constructed it were paid a fair wage?

I agree with you, and like PP have pointed out this is not really a new issue - quality of life has been going down steadily for many years, I would say the trajectory turned in 2008, it dropped further after the Brexit referendum, and since 2019 has been in sharp decline. The drop since 2022 has been precipitous for many.

@SixtySomething

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231119/life-expectancy-declining-many-english-communities/

Lots of articles out there

Used to be before the childcare funding became available?

No I appreciate it’s not the norm but it is a possibility for a lot of people especially if you have the option to work flexibly and/or from home. However I would say around three quarters of the (middle class) people I know refuse to even entertain the option of a childminder for various reasons including the fact that you have to take holiday at the same time as them and they don’t want to be restricted on when they can go away (don’t get why this is a big deal personally). But mainly people seem very snobby about using childminders and want to be able to drop Delilah off at a Montessori nursery in the mornings where they serve organic cous cous for lunch rather than at Lyn’s house with a lunchbox. Fair enough this is a choice and people are within their rights to make that choice but don’t then complain about the cost and say how crippling it is 🤷‍♀️ in some areas there is a massive shortage of childminders so this doesn’t apply to everyone. But within my friendship circle it certainly does, most people I know don’t even try to get a place and just go straight for nursery.

I would say the trajectory turned in 2008, it dropped further after the Brexit referendum, and since 2019 has been in sharp decline. The drop since 2022 has been precipitous for many.

People talk about economic cycles but we never recovered from the 08 bust.

I don't have data, but my observations:
Young adults living with parents for much longer than they used to
Multigenerational living
GPs having to provide childcare or else deeply resented
People eating less meat because too expensive
Move away from humanities careers to better paying STEM careers.
Frugality in general and parents being largely expected to do a fair bit for their kids

Dish washers are another luxury. I always found them to leave some marks on stuff. We only had one because of my fella's head injury which left him paralysed down one side. I prefer to wash up, just not on a off day.

@BigRenoLittleBudget again you need to separate anecdotal experience. I used a childminder & they were very popular in my area, cost wasn't much cheaper than nursery though...

You don't need 4 bedrooms because children shouldn't have to share in the old days they sometimes had five children in a bed let along a room when the families had 15 children.

I agree that standards can't keep going up - but the damage that the 2008 banking cock-up, the greed of rich people and the associated austerity has done more damage to our country than anything else. It is unforgivable. Okay, there has been COVID, Brexit and inflation issues since then - but the decline in all of our living standards started well before that

It would be now because of how childminders use funding compared to nurseries.

Your social circle sound very entitled and out of touch with reality I’m afraid.

The devil in me finds the idea rather entertaining. I’m imagining a new reality TV show “I’m middle class, get me out of here” where people who closely resemble Hyacinth Bucket have to compete challenges such as shopping in Farm Foods and taking the bus to work.

My DH and I both work hard and I don’t think expecting to eat out , get my hair done and go on holiday is unreasonable But we can afford it
The problem seems to me to be that people expect to have things they can’t afford

I think alot also feel like you that if they work hard & pay taxes then there should be something left over to enjoy. Taxes are very high now particularly for higher earners despite what you may think.

There wasn't much tech around 60/70 years ago. Black and white tv's only and not everyone had one. No computers, no mobile phones and many people didn't even have a landline - and if they did they might have to share a party line!

It would be now because of how childminders use funding compared to nurseries.

How some childminders use funding...

You say ‘20 years ago’, but I think 4 bed house ‘norm’ is older than that.

In what way?

There wasn't much tech around 60/70 years ago. Black and white tv's only and not everyone had one. No computers, no mobile phones and many people didn't even have a landline - and if they did they might have to share a party line!

But this is why I find the comparisons ridiculous. Some of the tech didn't even exist then so of course no one had it & society evolves based on tech.

This made me hoot, I just read it out to DH. I would LOVE to see them have to live in a 1970s house for 1 year without being able to modernise it in any way.

I used to think only celebs got botox and fillers and maybe some rich women in Chelsey, but as I've gotten older I've realised it's much more common these days. However, it's not something you can really compare with earlier times because it just wasn't around decades ago. Your only options were even more expensive surgery afaik.

It’s simple social comparison.

100 years ago, most people you came across lived the same life as you. People compared themselves to local norms and were fairly happy with their lot. They didn’t envy the rich because they rarely came into their social orbit.

Today we have not only the media, but social media and see people ‘like us’ all around, with much much more than we have. It skews the norm upwards and we feel we ‘should’ have these things too.

Eating sardines on toast for tea and not having a downstairs loo.

Brilliant. I'd watch it.

I do agree, but I also think to balance that, that there is a fair bit of LARPing on mumsnet, and I sincerely doubt that half (most of) the people who claim these things like, needing a detached home with acreage and a bedroom for each child, cat and hamster who lives there are absolutely not in the position of either needing or having those same standards of living.

Oh yes, in a 'dated and tired' kitchen.

Horrific.

I do find it interesting that the narrative is becoming "people expect too much" as opposed to examining why living standards in certain areas aren't improving.

As I said the people who argue that we need to realign expectations to the past do they think this should be the same for healthcare? or is just when talking about imported fruit?