Time to call out shit parenting!

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Just watched an article on BBC breakfast about decay in children's teeth.

Professional talked about scheme where teachers teach children to brush teeth each day since many children don't brush their teeth or get shown how to.

The presentator Nagga said is it right for teachers to do this and have time to do this surely parents should. The professional did everything to not blame poor parenting.

I mean, why don't we just say things as they are anymore? The parents are not parenting if they cannot be bothered to teach children to brush teeth twice a day (or for that matter toilet train). Why is it now down to teachers?

Some parents appear to do sod all but just churn out children.

Note. This is not SEN children, just children in general in particular areas. Again same with teaching to use toilet, not sen related.

Its both the parents and unfortunately the state of the UK. Teachers should not be responsible for overseeing toothbrushing!

I too am shocked at how many parents simply do not do or teach their children the basics..... brushing teeth, toilet training, weaning, washing, Reading/talking, playing with their children. Even taking them to a park or a walk is too much for many and then they wonder why their children are so hyped and 'bad'!

I think a lot of parents just can't seem to consider that their baby is a person that grows up, has their own needs and wants, and need to be taught how to do everything. They simply expect their children to somehow wake up one day and use the toilet.

But........, there are so many economic and political factors against parents. I remember seeing lot of adverts and being taught periodically in primary school about brushing twice daily for 2 mins. My parents took me to the dentist regularly fir check-ups. I dont think that's happening as much now. As PP mentioned, even if they do brush, children are constantly eating hidden sugars in foods people think are healthy as well.

People arent getting education from dentists as there's hardly any NHS dentists and the remaining ones have huge waiting lists because they simply cannot take more patients, including children. The £40mil spent on extracting teeth could be used to fund NHS dentists properly.

I can't remember the last time I saw an advert promoting brushing teeth. Electric toothbrushes, yes, but nothing specifically about brushing for 2 mins.

Public health promotion in schools/health visiting: They only give free toothbrushes and toothpaste if the company (eg colgate) send it to them for free, it is area based and for some reason the companies pick and choose what areas they want to give free samples to.

Basically, children's health in the UK is nearly the worst in the Western world. A lot of that is down to poverty, services being cut and chronically underfunded, the ease of UPFs in ready made foods, sweets, oven foods, etc. Whilst it's easy to blame parenting at an individual level, the bigger picture needs to be looked at because something is going terribly wrong.

What do you mean "passes the blame"? You cannot "pass blame" to the person who is actually to blame. If parents are so empoverished, or mentally ill, or confused, that they can't teach their own children to brush their teeth, they need intensive intervention coupled with public shaming, not for other people to assume their responsibilities. "Gentle" parenting is ineffectual parenting, I can't blame anyone for being seduced by the concept, but if someone's IQ is so low that they can't take stock and see that it doesn't work, I am confused as to how they function in society.

I grew up in poverty due to my mother's mental illness - and believe me that understanding the factors that lead to my substandard childhood does not lead me to have any sympathy for my mother or for others like her. Any parent who is currently in a situation where they are passively abusing their children by failing to dicipline them and teach them basic life skills needs a short, sharp shock, not mollycoddling. I would argue that legal consequences are the only way to punish resistant offenders.

I don't think it's the schools responsibility at all, there's enough they have to deal with but ultimately the children are the ones suffering so I can see why they're going down this route as easier to monitor.

Both of my boys hated teeth brushing at toddler age, I refused to pin them down like people suggested but after about 2 years of determination and various different things they are now both pretty good, thankfully no damage to the teeth but it was a hard slog. I don't think it's always as simple as laziness. Mine could have ended up with decay and it would definitely not be due to lack of trying.

I've said this before on threads but there are a lot of families who watch a lot of TV, so some public information campaigns about loads of aspects of parenting would be a small cost against the public benefit.

I don't expect anyone with influence to read these words though.

One difference with fizzy drinks etc was that I seem remember in the 70s only water was on offer at school. No drinking bottles just water fountains! And free (disgusting) milk until that was withdrawn.

we used to have people from Colgate come in to my primary school. They bought in samples and explained about teeth and brushing.

Whilst I don’t think business has a place in school as such. This sort of thing is brilliant and I still remember it now. Only “cost” to school was the half day lesson loss.

But I thought you were against some of the preventative measures like tooth brushing in schools?

Agree with you but if parents aren’t teaching their children, someone has to.

I’d be interested to see how much of it is fruit And fruit juice related.
other than the tweens and teens main lining redbull most of the children I see drink plain water, have sweets rarely. But do eat and drink alot of fruit related stuff

Can’t just blame sen,my dc has sen,he was toilet trained at 18 months,he eats whatever I make as long as it’s separate,its phones phones and more phones!

I think there's gonna be crappy parents no matter what we do its been a thing as long as time it self.

My mother may have had her faults but she was a saint to help the needy. If a child in mine or my sisters class always gave us nits she would befriend them.Get to know their parents and offer to baby sit.Then ring one day say o no i found nits in my child's hair and offer to check theirs as well .Thus getting to the root of the issue.

She befriended the local so called chav family and helped baby sit. Their son was a pyromaniac yet my mother ,mothered their children.

Another time both her and a close friend of hers would baby sit a local alcoholics girl when she was left on her own

Although my mother has since passed nothings changed we still have these same types of people rearing children yet less of the community like my mother that helped fill in the gaps .Its just how do we help ,how do you break the cycle, how can you call people out without the outrage ,how can you help when there's not enough help for them already. Its a problem as long as time

YANBU. It's absolutely crazy. Getting schools involved with brushing teeth is just lazy and victim-like behaviour on the child's parents' behalf. Surely they should look at their own horrid teeth and realise that they can break the cycle.

Yes, sometimes genetics play a part, but it's four minutes of brushing per day per kid. Just be a bloody parent and look after your children!

Why don't we do this now?

I grew up in 80s - public information films were around and how I learnt not to play near plyons and how to cross road and why you had to be careful round train tracks.

We used to be really good at them - I've seen US reviews look at some of the old blunt even scary ones. They were apparently very savy getting people just graduating from film schools wanting to make a mark and build a reputation.

We did do some teeth things back in my 80s primary school - we did experiments with putting teeth in cola - and visibly saw how bad it was and I think has some brushing lessons.

Not all SEN is the same.

I totally agree, as a society we are reluctant to blame poor parenting.

But also quick to blame teachers, headteachers, friends, social media, literally anything but the crap parents!

I also know a GP who was trained abroad and comes from a poor background in her home country. She 'treats' her toddler son all the time as it's seen as a sign of money and success.

Now that I think about it, most people I know from my parents home country also see sugary treats as a sign of having made it here in England.

They just don't see how bad sugar can be and then the problem is compounded when they don't brush their childrens teeth daily.

I see some posters have said that a definition of "poor parenting" is subjective and have rolled out mental health problems and poverty as possible excuses.

Poor parenting is not subjective. Poor parenting is having children that are hungry, dirty, sleep deprived, not toilet trained and have never had any discipline.

That's poor parenting. Anyone who thinks it isn't is wrong.

If your mental health problems or "poverty" is so bad bad that you can't do these things then you are not fit to have a child in your care. The child's right to a life where they are fed, clean, rested, toilet trained and able to respond to discipline far far outweighs your right to be a parent.

Harsh but true.

Even in the 90s we drank squash at school and squash and some fizzy drinks at home. I don't recall ever going to a friend's house and being given water or milk.

What else should schools do to compensate for shit parenting? Teach kids to use a toilet, to eat with cutlery, dress themselves, turn the pages of a book, sit on the floor?

These are all things that a significant minority of 4 year olds starting school can’t do because they’ve never been shown how. That’s absolutely shocking. All the wanging on about poverty and deprivation, as if the U.K. has a uniquely poor population, doesn’t help the useless parents or the deprived children. It isn’t the children of refugees who are still in nappies and don’t know what a book is.

I've said it many times on here but one of the first thing the coalition government did in 2010 was to cut the funding for the National Healthy Schools Standard. This was a very successful initiative that most schools in the country joined voluntarily and the data showed improvements being made before the funding was pulled. It was a collaboration between education and primary care trusts and included all aspects,food, physical activity, emotional health and the PSHE curriculum. Staff, governors, pupils, parents and health professionals were involved. Some fantastic projects took place such as parenting programmes, growing food and how to cook it and yes, talks from local dentists on how to look after children's teeth.

Is that £40 million just for tooth decay?

Because DS is going into hospital for teeth extraction because his are impacted and I wondered how much of that figure relates to cases like his. Absolutely nothing to do with dental hygiene in our case.

His cousins had to have several baby teeth removed for decay. SIL tried to claim it was because they had weak enamel. The fact that every time I see these nephews they are chomping on sugary snacks is apparently nothing to do with it 🙄

I agree. I have always supervised my children when brushing their teeth and the dentist always remarks what great teeth they have and to make sure I watch them/ brush their teeth until they are much older.

It is also diet - the crap most kids eat daily is appalling. And it’s not even just sweets or fizzy drinks, it’s a cereal and just an overall processed diet lacking in k2 and good animal fats. You can tell by not only the amount of children with cavities but also needing braces and corrective dental treatment because their teeth are growing so misaligned due to poor diet. I recommend all parents with kids and dental issues to research Weston Price’s work on oral health.

Absolutely agree that it is not schools place to teach kids to brush their teeth and it is very poor parenting that is to blame. My own parents were a bit slap dash with the teeth brushing and as a result I have terrible teeth (had loads extracted as a child and then of course my adult molars which come through in childhood are full of fillings). It has caused me a LOT of pain over the years and cost a lot of money! I was absolutely determined my kids would not go the same way. Mine are teens now and and find my obsession with teeth cleaning and dental hygiene amusing. When they were little it was just non-negotiable and they knew it, I did it for them and then supervised until they could be trusted to do it properly.
There is NO excuse. Even if its hard in the toddler years, good dental hygiene will save a child a lifetime of pain and problems.

YANBU - this is just a ridiculous situation and parents should be called out for this. Stop the excuses, cut the crap - it’s poor parenting through and through and if you can’t manage to brush your child’s teeth, I’m concerned about their other needs being met.

My daughter has a cavity due to her reflux going out of control and she started grinding the refluxed stomach contents into her teeth.
We managed to get an appointment with a new paediatrician who sorted out her meds and get her reflux back under control.
We were pretty good with avoiding sugar and things bad for teeth before but have been extra keen since. She has her teeth brushed to YouTube videos twice a day and extra toothpaste put on her teeth before she goes to sleep to give a bit of protection from her reflux. She has fluoride treatment every 3 months and for the last 18 months the cavity hasn't got any worse and doesn't cause her pain so for now it's just being monitored every 3 months. It's was hard at first to make the adjustments - the removal of citrus fruits she found harder than anything else! She's got a dairy allergy so she's on oat milk and we pay a fortune for the oat milk that has the equivalent nutrition to cows milk.

My daughters school have offered to brush her teeth during the day if needed as they know the issues we have. As it currently stands she doesn't need the extra teeth cleaning and it absolutely would be extra as we would continue with the 3 times a day we already do

We spend a lot more time and energy on keeping her teeth in the best condition we can than my parents ever did. I was born in the 80s mid way through primary school I was regularly drinking tea and coffee with sugar, we never had water only juice, we didn't have fizzy drinks at home except at Christmas but weekly at grandparents, similar for sweets, chocolates and mints. We could eat as much fruit as we wanted. My little sister had a cavity put down to her having several apples a day by the dentist.

Re the £40 million, it sounds a big number but in the words of "more or less" is it a big number? How many extractions is that a year? What proportion of children are effected?
I've looked up the stat on the gov website. For those mentioning other reasons the full stat is £67 million on extractions, £40 million on extractions due to decay. So approximately a third of the extractions done on children are not due to decay. The data is from 2022-2023. Given the long waiting lists for extractions and the lack of dental check ups, is there a Covid effect on the figures? The figures for 2023-2024 would be interesting to see as any lingering effects of 2020-2021 should have less of an impact.

When I worked on a ward, where we'd have children in having rotten teeth removed, the parents would give them juice in bottles after, cans of coke etc.

Some kids were as young as 3 having every single tooth pulled. It was horrid.

But! We were not allowed to say anything to the parents about the sugary drinks etc!! It was awful.