‘Game the system’ disability benefits

[Tomatochocolate]

WTF
just read a bbc article about welfare reforms

Apparently ministers think that it’s an incentive to claim disability benefits as the incentive is no work commitments on UC. That claimants ‘game the system’

It’s a long process and really hard to get awarded dla or pip. It’s not just ticking a box that says ‘I’m too sick to work’.

AIBU to think this is just horrific

Yeah. Typical political behaviour.

Get the media to spout utter bollocks, drip it into the 'brains' of the hard of thinking then way-hey coast is clear to go after the target with few objections.

Individually; there are many people with disabilities who do not get the help they need

Structurally and nationally; the numbers of people accessing support has increased. OBR are estimating 100bn a year by end of thr decade. IFS saying numbers on health related benefits have doubled in last 5 years. If we keep borrowing money as a country we will pay even more in interest. Broadly we can't afford everything

We need to find ways that better support disabled people; improve quality of life and help those who can to get into work with the right support

@Cattreesea Some of the people frustrated by things like "gaming the system" are actually genuinely disabled people, not abled people being ableist!

Let’s assume you are right. There are a minority of people claiming fraudulently that would not qualify for benefits if they had face to face assessments.

Most taxpayers would prefer NOT to have to pay the gigantic additional costs of doing face to face assessment for every claimant, and are willing to instead, take the much lower cost of a few “spongers” on the chin.

I was asked if a person/staff approached me at the self checkout would I be able to speak to them. And with that, and their words not mine, that i could engage in a meaningful conversation with someone, this means i don't have anxiety 🤷🏻‍♀️

🙌🙌

As an occupational therapist and a powerlifter I can tell you that locomotion and lifting are very different activities in terms of demand. I have many patients who can do resistance training (sometimes literally for 5-10 minutes) but need a taxi to get them to the gym because walking more than a few meters causes dizziness, balance issues, overwhelming fatigue and pain. Many people in wheelchairs also do resistance training. My partner is recovering from hip op, he just went to the gym (using walking aids) to do some gentle rehab but I still have to put his socks and shoes on, help him to get in and out of the bath, wash his hair, serve him meals and manage his medication as he is loosing track of doses due to being fuzzy on opiates. If this was a long-term problem, he would likely qualify for PIP as without my assistance, he wouldn't be able to manage ADLs.
Also, nobody is going to post on IG about them being in bed recovering for three weeks after a short gym sessions. You only see people when they are well (and it can be intermittent if someone has a remitting/relapsing condition) but when they are unwell, it's solitary and isolating and nobody is there to witness it except for their carers.
The threshold for PIP is having functional difficulties more than 50% of the time not 100% of the time.

Fraud isn’t the same as ‘exaggerating symptoms’, so the latter won’t be included. Fraud is making a false statement or omission to make a gain, so actively lying about your age/diagnosis or somebody making the claim on behalf of another so they can keep the proceeds. People who do have a diagnosis of anxiety but massage the symptoms for maximum PIP won’t be included in the fraud figures.

PP is right, in total we have the equivalent of the population of Scotland on disability benefits. Emotions aside, it’s madness.

@Tomatochocolate Yes, there are people who can manipulate doctors and fake the results of medical tests. That absolutely does happen. It's called factitious disorder, it is a real thing and it needs to be treated with therapy. The answer is not to give people PIP for what they claim is wrong with them. They need to be correctly diagnosed either with FD or with somatisation, and offered comprehensive access to therapy. That would be far more compassionate and effective than benefits.

They were referring to people out of work and claiming disability premium payments which take them out of job seeking groups and award more money - it’s not PIP being brought into this discussion as that is available to people in work

Pisses me off the amount of people who are perfectly capable of working but don't.
Take my dad and his partner for example, both fit with fuck all wrong with them apart from normal ageing, they don't work and haven't for near enough 20 years. I honestly don't understand how they're not made to look for work?! Dads partners eldest is 19 now, receives his own pip for asd yet mum still isn't made to look for work?
My dad I have no idea what he's claiming but I know he isn't looking for work.

Surely the only people who should be upset by this are the ones ‘gaming the system’.

The article just refers to ‘sickness benefits’ which is probably deliberately vague to cause resentment against anyone getting anything dla/pip/LCWRA etc

Good luck to them. The people really gaming "the system" are those that maintain it in their own interests.

Landowners, corporations etc. £250 billion in tax breaks to North Sea oil companies, £13.8 billion in corporate tax avoidance etc.

There's about £23 billion in unclaimed welfare support.

I havemnt read the entire thing.

BUT

PIP /DLA is one thing, and with 2 children who receive these, not an easy benefit to have. Lots of info needed.

However they dont necessarily equate to LCWRA - I have one child who can only work here and there as some of her conditions mean she has flares of chronic fatigue. She gets LCWRA. She is currently, very slowly, proceeding through a PT degree with a very supportive local Uni who are accepting and flexible around her needs.

My other child would likely not get LCWRA, as with support, he is fit and healthy, and would absolutely be a boon to many workplace who was able to put in that support. The PIP is around his struggles and needs, and reflects the type of support he would need, and is exactly what PIP is for - helping him to have that support so that he can work.

I also know alot of people who do not get PIP/DLA however they do get LCWRA because that is a separate assessment altogether, and most akin to the 'sickness benefit' that most people think of when they are referencing sickness and benefit. It may not reach the requirements of PIP, but it impacts their ability to work - and IF THEY ARE ABLE TO FIX THE NHS/MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT to get many many of the people who are stuck unable to work because of the delays or actual impossibility of any help to address their problems, then thats only a good thing. I have a family member who is absolutely crippled by an ongoing MH crisis, who literally cannot get seen by anyone, as the bar for access is so high that only a suicide attempt will grant you access. She would love to be better and to return to work.

The problem is the correlation between the two, absolutely different, systems of assessment and criteria by both the government and the public.

It just sounds like they don’t have any way to identify these supposed people though but will make cuts in general to address this perceived problem

Certainly not automatically, no.

Been on PIP for well over a decade. Made my first application for UC (after WTC ended) end of last august.

I had to go through the assessment process for LCWRA, and now I do not have to work or do anything to look for work buuuuuuuut, I am permitted to do whatever hours I want to work.

So I do work, pay tax etc etc. I will be down as a non-working disability benefit claimant statistic somewhere though!

Repeated appeals, i met one through work, hasnt worked in years, mental health anguish, which doesn’t seem to be working so they are using urinary and incontinence as a problem.
All made up. Regular drug user, very well dressed, probably deals

So why hasn’t Labour simply claimed all this outstanding tax then? Are they greedy and unprincipled?

Yes I agree.

Labour have identified this problem and I think they’re going to cut PIP eligibility for ND and MH reasons, we’ll find out more in a couple of weeks. It has to be done.

Whilst it is incredibly difficult and a tough process - it seems to be the genuine people who have to fight and ‘prove’ themselves whilst the ‘fakers’ are the ones who instantly get it.

my mum had every health condition you can think of, arthritis, hip replaced, diabetes, asthma, thyroid removed - the list continues. She suffers every day, visits a medical professional at least once a week due to her health. Yet she got declined pip and had to fight to receive it, even then it’s not full rate.

yet my exes mum gets top rate of pip for her ‘mental health’. She claims that she cannot leave her home and brags that she told them that she ran out of milk and had a mental breakdown at the thought of leaving the house to get more. She laughed when telling the story of how she’s conning the system, she said how she laid it on thick about how she’s so mentally unwell she is that she doesn’t leave her home for months at a time. This same woman goes to raves and parties every weekend, she goes and sits in a coffee shop every single weekday. Her actions contradict her claim. I also know another person who claims the top pip as he cannot walk far, yet he parks his car in a disabled bay and goes on a hike for 5+ hours multiple times a week.

i guess what I’m trying to prove is how the fake people are the reason the genuine people fight it yet the system is set up to continue punishing the people who are doing nothing wrong.

What you may not know is that many people who are entitled to benefits dont get them because their symptoms are understated and they as a matter of fact dont writr how hard their say to day life is, and many people who o an still are juged fit to work even though they are not.

If their symptoms are understated they don’t need benefits.

But that’s because Fibro is fluctuating condition. And yes, a walk may help with certain symptoms of Fibro, however, it can also make other symptoms worse. And just because she could potentially go for a walk one day doesn’t mean she’d manage it every day, or even many days. But you can guarantee the one day that’s she’d managed, rather than the many others that she probably couldn’t would be the one thing that the DWP would hone in on and hold her to account for.

It’s not her who’s at fault here.

I’m in a similar situation with having both ME and Fibro. I can drive to say the supermarket on occasion and look completely ‘normal’ to anyone who saw me. What they wouldn’t see is the payback from that one small trip out por the other days where I can barely leave my bed or sofa, let alone the house.

Edited to add - I actually get nervous leaving the house like this in case I am ‘caught’, even though I was completely honest on my PIP application. And that’s because it worries me that those odd days are the ones the DWP will focus on. I’m not doing anything wrong but it’s hard not to feel like that when people judge and only see a snapshot.

Has it crosse your mind they dont' get it just because they are autistic, but because they struggle with ay to day life/being inependent. My son will never be independent andI am not sure he will ever speak, so even when he is 40 he is not likely to be able to wipe his own bum, not to mention go to shops and buy food. I may be physically able to work but wont because I will have to look after him. You dont know what is going inside peoples families, seemingly even your own.