‘Game the system’ disability benefits

[Tomatochocolate]

WTF
just read a bbc article about welfare reforms

Apparently ministers think that it’s an incentive to claim disability benefits as the incentive is no work commitments on UC. That claimants ‘game the system’

It’s a long process and really hard to get awarded dla or pip. It’s not just ticking a box that says ‘I’m too sick to work’.

AIBU to think this is just horrific

@PandoraSox A wheelchair or scooter is a one off cost that lasts an incredibly long time. Plus if you genuinely need a wheelchair, the NHS will pay for it. (I know this will get replies saying it's not true, but actually it is.)

Scooters, it's true, are self funded. But a mobility aid lasts a long time if taken care of. My current wheelchair has lasted me ten years and no sign of needing replacement.

Some people seem to think you can't be disabled and think the current system is flawed. Actually if you have a serious and long lasting disability, you may be even more likely to have long term experience of its flaws and how people are exploiting it...!

@PocketSand , your post about your son could have been written by my friend about her son. It really resonated with me.

He's autistic, has PTSD and terrible anxiety. He's got much worse over the last 5 years, since they had to move from a small social housing estate on the edge of a village to a flat on a rough estate in the middle of town, because of the "bedroom tax". He's been out of education since he was 11. She often has to cancel appointments etc because he's so frightened of being at home on his own.

I helped her get DLA for him, then PIP, and he gets UC with LCWRA in his own right. He uses his PIP to pay for counselling/psychotherapy that he couldn't get on the NHS and is finally starting to improve, to the point where she can sometimes leave him for a couple of hours. Caring for him has damaged her mental health, too.

He has been failed appallingly by "the system". He was on CAMHS waiting list for 5-6 years, but only had his autism assessment when he was almost over compulsory school age.

It makes me bloody angry that he's so much worse than he could have been because of the lack of MH input when he was younger, and his MH issues are much worse than they ought to be because of the delay in assessing and diagnosing him. And her own mental and physical health has suffered because of the strain of caring for him.

No child should have to wait so long for help for their mental health. Under-resourcing CAMHS is a false economy; there must be hundreds, maybe thousands of young people whose life chances have been ruined because of the failure to provide appropriate early intervention.

But hey, let's just make him get a job, and cut his benefits if he doesn't, eh?

I really hope you don't have similar difficulty in getting help for your child.

@PandoraSox How is it "disability hate" when disabled people are saying these things?

It’s not that ‘benefit bashing is the in thing’, it’s the the cost of these benefits has escalated dramatically since 2020, and it is unsustainable.

There needs to be reform to ensure it’s affordable to continue providing it, or the whole system will collapse.

But you wouldn’t live a miserable life with an extra £400 a month, free comprehensive medical care, and UC to pay housing and bills if you claim that. If you think this is a ‘miserable life’ I urge you to visit a second or third world country. We are very lucky here, but it seems lost on people now as the Overton window has shifted.

Yes, this may be broadly true. I do think this. I don't believe that PIP should be payable for all conditions. The way that the system is administered is too open to manipulation by people who are good at that. That doesn't mean those people don't need support, it's just that the form of support they need shouldn't be coming through a system that encourages them to self victimise. PIP should be for genuinely severe, largely incurable and irresolvable issues. That does include some mental health conditions and presentations of neurodiversity, but not the vast majority.

For context, I'm autistic and have mental health diagnoses too. These are not relevant to my PIP claim which is purely for physical conditions and doesn't even mention MH or neurodiversity.

Pensioners who are doing this need to be careful. In our benefits team we have seen a recent increase in pensioners being pulled up for fraud/ deprivation of assets. The current government are looking into the savings of 1.2 million pensioners as part of a crackdown on means tested benefit fraud.

I think they're alarmed by the number of people claimimg for things like long term MH issues. It's tricky because almost everyone now suffers in some way and it's largely due to how hard it has got to get by. Mental health issues are often talked about as if they just randomly happen to people but realistically if people were able to afford a goof quality of life and had opportunities to grow and get on, many fewer people would suffer from mental illness. The fact is you can't have record numbers signed off for depression and anxiety, because the economy won't grow and .things won't improve. Something of a catch 22.

You should go on more chronic illness groups online. Then you'll see a lot more people who are exaggerating their symptoms and somehow able to do everything they want to do but nothing they don't want to do. This is not an occasional thing, it's literally all over groups of this nature... it's relatively hard to find people who are not like that in "anonymous" groups (such as on Reddit). I don't believe all of these people are totally fine, or 100% faking, but it is a complex issue with deep roots in maladaptive behaviours, and the answer is not to just give people money.

I would honestly refuse a million pounds if it meant i was in full health again.

Being in rude health is always taken for granted, until it's taken away. Wealth is most definitely health, and even people like my close family have lacked empathy in the past towards my health problems - "just try to write an article for work", said my DM when I had aphasia and couldn't read after my head injury...😒🙄😳

Yeah. Sure.

The comments on here are exactly why I won't tell a living soul that I get PIP.

I have a condition that fluctuates (physical and degenerative), but i also have good days. No one will see me on the bad days. Those are the days I can't get out of bed.

I also work about 70 hours per week (fully remote) and self-employed so that if I need to go to bed, there is no one who can fire me... because it's just me.

I submitted all my medical records and letters from the consultant and had a robust assessment from a kind assessor.

It wasn't easy, but it was thorough. I have no doubt some people are swinging it.... but not all of us...

@beholdmylastfuckflyingaway Sincerely, why did you decide to claim it given that you're able to work 70 hours a week? I'm asking because I don't believe I would claim if I was in your position. PIP is my only income. I'm not entitled to any other benefits. (Can't claim UC as my spouse works, before marriage I received enhanced ESA.) It's genuinely difficult for me to imagine why anyone would put themselves through the process of claiming when able to work. The only reason I claim is because it's literally the only way for me to access income of my own.

Christ alive, @Wildflowers99 you really don't know what you're talking about.

UC does not fully cover most rents, there is a LHA that is capped and means that from your personal allowance which is meant to cover bills and food you have to cover the shortfall. Real life example - my LHA is 695. My rent is 850. My personal allowance is 393.45. Do the maths. I am "too broken to work" which I hope to remedy, and do get that component too. My Utilities are in the region of 250 a month, and I have other commitments that see me struggle every month.

I manage, but only just. My life is small, devoid of socialisation, and constricted by caring responsibilities. This too will pass. I'm lucky that I am in relatively good physical health for my age, but I am trapped by other circumstances beyond my control.

For someone with a disability, they would, even in my one bed flat, be paying 250 a month or more for heating alone. I hardly used it over the Winter, because my health allows that.

You do not get to judge what constitutes a miserable life, nor compare apples with oranges by simpering about third world countries. 400 extra, if you have 400 or more expenses associated with your health / disability can be the difference between a life worth living or not for some people.

COL is also variable according to area, while benefits are largely fixed. And a glib "well move then" will be met with a long list of reasons why that's often detrimental to the disabled.

Finally, you are fixed on the idea that medical care is easily accessed in a timely fashion and is free. If you can't access that free healthcare, or you have to wait and deteriorate it's pointless to harp on about it.

Its a long process to get DLA or PIP. Plenty of people get whose disability level does not require carers help, whether paid or unpaid. This is what it is supposed to be for.
So people I know include women with ASD who is a single parent, and works. She does this by herself with no support. Or women who has a cochlear implant, works, and lives alone.
The benefits should be for those with care needs or extra needs that have to be paid for.

Many of us who do not get PIP and would never get PIP are not in good health. There are plenty of people who do get PIP who are in much better health than me. PIP is not about ill health.

YANBU it is horrific, and with announcements being made about cuts coming at the end of the month, I think we will see more views like many in this thread.
I live off benefits as I am not able to work. Anyone who thinks I am living it up on the meagre amount I get is welcome to swap with me if I can have your perfect heath too.

Sadly I see some familiar names on this thread peddling their usual nonsense about people with MH issues crippling the country because they are "too anxious to work". It is always anxiety. It has become a benefit bashing trope now.

If people do exaggerate to get a successful claim, then I have never seen it. Pretty much all of the people I see regularly are on benefits (I go to support groups, and the friends I have I met in hospital/therapy), and I can say that not a single person there is taking the piss. And a regular topic we discuss is the shame of being reliant on benefits, and how we are judged. Oh, if only we just got a job and we would be cured. A lot of us did work... and working made things worse. Some people were in very well paid jobs.

I do think the increase in people applying for LCRWA is because it comes with more money. LCW is the same amount as people with full work search commitments. And on LCW you do still have some commitments, although it is light touch. No one can live off that money. I do think the increase in applications to PIP is also due to the CoL. More people on it are using it for food and bills because they can't afford to live on UC alone.

It honestly feels like there are people out there (and on here) who are rubbing their hands in glee at the vulnerable being pushed into more poverty. Personally, I like to get my happiness from other sources.

@XenoBitch do you mind if I ask what you get? Perhaps dissolving the smoke and mirrors by adding some figures would help? Am I right in thinking you told me on the other thread you have no housing costs?

I have no housing costs because I do not rent. That means I do not get the housing element of UC. I just get LCWRA.

I’ve always felt that the people fucked over by the benefit system are child free adults. I’ve never been under the illusion that a single person just getting UC is living it up - I’ve seen the numbers and it’s basically unliveable, I actually don’t know how they live off it.

I think where they start to shoot up is when children are involved, and particularly PIP/ a child on DLA. A poster on here gave a full breakdown of their entitlement and it was eye watering - £3000 per month in addition to their partner’s salary. I can find the thread if you like. But that to me is absolutely taking the mickey. That money will be paid by people earning far less than their household, and you can see why that makes us very very fed up. Like I said, it isn’t selfish to want to help others but not so they have substantially more than you.

What is that in numbers per month, for all benefits you receive? I know you don’t rent as you said your house/flat is paid off?

Yes please do as I’d love to know how anybody gets £3000. The highest pip is £600.

@XenoBitch Do you ever look at any websites for people with disabilities? Go on any other social media besides MN? I find it strange that you have never seen anyone exaggerate, but I do believe you that you're not meeting those people irl.

@Wildflowers99

But you wouldn’t live a miserable life with an extra £400 a month, free comprehensive medical care, and UC to pay housing and bills if you claim that.

I'm interested to know where the free comprehensive medical care is coming from?

For info, I get about £710 per month in PIP, and that's it. Total income, from all sources.