‘Game the system’ disability benefits

[Tomatochocolate]

WTF
just read a bbc article about welfare reforms

Apparently ministers think that it’s an incentive to claim disability benefits as the incentive is no work commitments on UC. That claimants ‘game the system’

It’s a long process and really hard to get awarded dla or pip. It’s not just ticking a box that says ‘I’m too sick to work’.

AIBU to think this is just horrific

It cannot possibly be as hard as you are making it out to be to get it when something like more than 3 Million people in the UK get it. That's not something hard to get

There are literally loads of websites that tell you exactly how to word things in your application to score points

I get PIP, I scored points mostly on my mental health. Yes, I had to have evidence of goijg under CMH on my record, eating disorder clinic (never inpatient), etc.

That's interesting, @Agix. I spent most of the morning drafting a mandatory reconsideration for PIP someone under both the mental health team and an eating disorder clinic.

They only missed out on an award by 2 points though, so I'm hopeful the decision will be overturned at this stage and they don't have to wait a year for a tribunal hearing.

This is what I don’t get. Apparently it’s very hard to access yet 3.5 million people claim it?

Thank you 😊

I've just tried to PM you but it says that private messaging is currently disabled... is this a general site issue perhaps?

Having children is hands down the most physically and mentally draining thing I’ve ever done. Pregnancy, birth, caring for a newborn, pushing prams, lifting car seats, chasing around after a toddler with no sense of danger, the endless illness, constant hypervigilence, the worry, the mental load.

An 8 hour a day admin job isn’t a patch on that.

So frankly I don’t see how somebody can be so disabled as to need benefits but still be able to have & care for babies?

I'm in Facebook groups for people with the two main conditions I receive PIP for, and they are constantly turned down. Their reports are full of lies - the assessor saying "you said you couldn't do this, I decided you can" - no justification, just a straight "I don't believe you".

It is not easy to get.

@Redruby2020 if someone approaches you just shout 'that's my purse, I don't know you' in the style of Bobby Hill. Kick to the knackers is optional. This would indicate you may struggle with meaningful communication and may have anxiety that impacts on daily living.

Facetious advice on faking it.

It can seem like a bizarre question and doesn't portray whether you experience anxiety but how much effect it has on daily life. 10 years ago my DS would blank them but now won't go into a shop in case someone speaks to him, won't leave the house in case someone speaks to him or even sees him. So it does have rationale.

He has ASD. A lifelong disability. Frequent reviews are distressing to him and increase anxiety and depression. He hates the focus on what he can't do and how much he struggles. He wants to lie and say he is 'fine' but there is no evidence to support this. I just get him back on an even keel and then it's time for the next review. This needs to stop.

I would also like to point out that advice forums exist for anyone completing complex forms of any nature. This is not gaming the system. These forums and advice groups exist to help people who are naive to the system and need help and support to express their genuine needs in a meaningful way.

This is different to people who lie or exaggerate. But this is less likely where claims have to be externally confirmed by professionals. You can get help with your CV and exaggerate your university and class of degree but it won't be backed up by evidence. You can get help with your PIP claim and exaggerate but it won't be backed up by evidence.

17500 claims with claimant error are still only 0.5% of 3.5 million claims. Where is the evidence of claimant fraud?

What is the percentage of claims awarded without supporting independent evidence submitted by health professionals?

What is the percentage of awards declined despite evidence?

We can see the claims awarded following tribunal.

Does this really suggest that awards are being granted when unnecessary?

It’s easy to get if you qualify like anything. If you don’t for the criteria you will struggle to get it.

I'd love to hear constructive suggestions as to how we get all these "fakers" into work? And those who are impacted by disability who want to work? The idea seems to be, well, they'd soon "get a job" if benefits were stopped. But, realistically, how?

It's an employers market to start with. 99% of jobs require online applications, and the joys of AI weeding out "unsuitable" candidates before you get near an interview process. And that can require several meetings, requiring tech skills if it's online, and the time, money and support to travel to interviews if it's FTF.

The days of rocking up to a place of employment in person, and charming them into trying you out are long gone. Maybe that's what people should do though, to prove their commitment to work, just start picketing potential employers and refusing to leave until they're given a job that actually pays enough to live on, plus enough to accommodate their challenges?

If the money does stop, what then? Well, you'll see the courts implode under the strain of eviction cases and GP surgeries swamped by people whose physical and mental conditions rapidly deteriorate further. You'll see massive family breakdown, and social services even further overwhelmed as children suffer neglect and malnutrition. Crime and drug dependency and alcoholism will soar, schools will become more about social care than education, and those who were just about hanging on to some sort of hope will be completely demoralised.

There is no simple solution to this problem, unless you do want to go back to the Victorian era, and are happy to see people regarded as less than humans.

We are currently seeing the biggest wealth transfer from one section of society to another, it started in Covid and is continuing. The grind of poverty drives people into survival mode, and thanks to education and the Internet, awareness of the injustices in society does make one wonder why it's OK for the rich and privileged to take advantage of the ability to generate more wealth for themselves while those trying to get by with a side hustle get hammered at every turn, with pretty much every penny they earn / acquire having to pass through their hands straight back into the economy thanks to the ever rising cost of living.

The world has changed, and is changing, at greater speed than at any other time in history thanks to technology, which is a double edged sword in so many ways. The average human, and even those with higher than average intelligence, is struggling to adapt, and we are overwhelmed by it, because infrastructure and legislation and politics isn't keeping up, in part due to geopolitics out of our control.

This is end stage capitalism, and herding the populous around like cattle due to division and othering is going to have some pretty dire consequences if extremist views are allowed to flourish.

Disability bashing posters out of force again….

Sometimes, I wish people who are so adamant about fakers would get ill themselves agd figet to feel how it’s like in the other side.
Because it’s awful.
And clearly no amount of explaining makes any difference.

Maybe the real daily struggles of someone with NH issues or physical disability,I ties or chronic health would open their eyes.

Well not really wishing that on them… but still…. Sometimes…..

Nobody can send PMs atm due to the child abuse pictures that were on this site a couple of weeks ago. There's a thread about it in Site Stuff.

@ForeverDelayedEpiphany

Who says they’re doing a good job, don’t rely on fully on their partner/family to cope??

I was ill from when dc2 was 2yo. Not diagnosed for another 10 years (yes it often takes that long to get a diagnosis).
And I was a shit parent because of the way my illness affected me.

HTH

Lovely word salad you’ve made…. But what’s you end stage capitalism point?

Sorry, forgot to offer the customary mayonnaise or dressing of your choice.

Google is your friend my dear 😘

Some of us are disabled ourselves. There are 100% fakers. I don't know why people get so offended by this. I'm on full PIP myself.

Well, I used to work for the DWP and now I’m disabled so I’ve see. It from both sides. Yes, many people play the system, but the majority don’t. 🤷‍♀️

Gawd you’re thick.

How do you explain people getting 0 points and then enhanced on both (12 points+) at tribunal? I find it hard to believe they supplied very little evidence and then as it got to tribunal submitted pages of evidence

Do explain ? Better do it in words of one syllable as you consider me intellectually challenged in some way.

Of course people game the benefit system, just like people commit insurance fraud, or VAT fraud. There is thousands to be made so why do you think people wouldn’t try? I am sure some people claim under multiple names too. You would have to be very naive to think everyone claiming disability benefits is genuine.

I would explain it by saying they fit the criteria but the original assessor didn’t think they did.

It doesn’t help because many people have babies while on PIP - the majority of women if my local FB is anything to go by.

I think we should halve PIP. £400 a month is more than enough as top rate. And place a total benefits cap per household of £23,000 or thereabouts. I haven’t seen anyone advocate for NO welfare system (ever, in fact). Just a slimming down of what we have now as it’s wildly out of control, to the extent we are now scrabbling around for military funding when Europe is under threat. We as taxpayers don’t exist solely to support a minority with ‘needs’. We also want decent defence, a pleasant environment, good leisure and sports facilities, well resourced policing and fire services. As it is we don’t get any of the latter, they’re cut more and more as benefits go up and up.

So nothing about the way the assessors are working then?
Not even when 70% of tribunal hearings are in favour of the disabled personal?

Nope, not structural at all…..
It’s just ‘the assessor didn’t think they did’ oops. Sorry.

To jump from 0 to 12+ points is more than two assessors disagreeing. There are so many PIP assessment reports full of lies. I was awarded full PIP and my assessor had just made up random answers for some of the categories. The points awarded reflected my answers, but the answers recorded did not!