To think the Republican Party need to wake up and find their spine?

[TooBigForMyBoots]

The Republican Party are responsible for President Trump. Given that they have a majority in both Houses and on the Supreme Court, they are the only ones who can prevent him further damaging the US and its citizens.

Their fear and appeasement of the bully Trump has only made him stronger, but we are where we are and can only go from here.

AIBU to think Republicans need to find their spine, guts and voice to stop appeasing/placating Trump and do their duty for the American people?

How did that ocean work out when Japan attacked Pearl Harbour?

Part of me also thinks they are shit scared of China and have Intel that is making this "pivot" they keep mentioning an absolute necessity.
Russia is essentially small fry and Europe is being forced to step up because they need to prepare for China.

Maybe, maybe not but people in trumps team fully understand putin and years ago trump was questioning the point of dependency on Russian gas.

You said it's all about the money. Why should America fund Ukraine? Why should the tax payer fund Ukraine?

But it's not about the money is it. Israel aren't paying back the billions they've had from the US to bomb the ME.

Your emperor has sided with the aggressor, he's sided with a dictator who's on an imperialist mission.

He's by passing the US's democratic pathways in order to do whatever he wants and you're waving pom poms. You've swallowed whatever he and Putin have said hook, line and sinker.

I would be loving this right now if it wasn't so dangerous for the rest of the world. You keep yapping: Whataboutthemoney!! While your country is going through a blender.

Thing is, though, that they are driving Europe (as well as Canada and Mexico) towards strengthening it's economic ties with China.

It all seems very Trump-driven, too, and contrary to what others in his Administration used to consider as being in the country's interest.

Unless the US really does plan on invading some of its former allies - which it might - I'm not sure how this all works out for them.

I know that there is a lot of skepticism as to whether a Greenland invasion might happen, but I'm inclined to think it will.

I think the only hope is that the opposite of this will happen, Trump will tank the economy, his tax cuts will benefit only the billionaires and the republican base start getting pissed off. The senators and congresspeople aren’t generally rich, they will be hurt too and that coupled with the fear they will lose their reelection campaigns will start to motivate more and more to stand up to and defy Trump. There is only so much he can lie to people even if they voted for him. I’m not that worried about JD Vance, he does not have the cult like appeal that Trump does, there is something very unique about Trump that fortunately can’t be replicated. Vance is just unlikeable and hopefully unelectable. I just hope people’s eyes start opening sooner rather than later. I know this is probably a best case but I can hope.

Exactly how has Trump sided with Putin. By asking Ukraine to sign a contract to pay back the money they owe? To stop the war?
You have 2 solutions :-

1. Keep fighting the war with Europe hopefully behind you with money, equipment and soldiers (will most likely lose more territory to Ukraine and more lives lost) OR
2. Reach a peace agreement. That means neither side will get exactly what they want. You think an agreement means you will get everything you want and all the money you want? That's not how it works, never has, never will.

So, the choice is Ukraines really. You can fight till the last man standing but pride alone does not mean you will win. MONEY, EQUIPMENT and possibly soldiers from OTHER countries will be needed to win. Are the European countries going to send you enough and fight with you? They are,after all in your eyes, so much better allies than America!

Swallow your pride or fight till the death. Ukraine's choice and theirs alone.

Most of the money is going to American arms companies. So America is 'getting the money back' because it is predominately going to American workers (and shareholders).

The European arms industry simply isn't big enough to.provide what Ukraine needs, so European money is also going to America.

I don't know why these pro-Trump Americans insist on posting on here. If you want to isolationist, do us all a favour and stick to you own parenting forums (just like many of us will be avoiding US services from now on).

We're entitled to judge your country based on its actions and, if you truly don't give a fuck, why the endless attempts at justification?

Again you're repeating Trump. I've already explained to you, quite patiently, about allies and how dangerous Putin is but you're not interested.

It's very obvious how Trump has sided with Putin, apparently Putin is very pleased with his little poodle in the Whitehouse.

Trump accused Zelensky of being a dictator and the aggressor. That's straight from the Kremlin. Your emperor is mindlessly repeating Russian propaganda.

That is not how loans work.

Ah, @TooBigForMyBoots , you speak of spines and courage as if those were the currency of politics. But let me tell you a little secret power does not yield to principle. It bends to incentive.

The Republican Party did not lose its spine; it simply traded it for something far more valuable control. You call it fear and appeasement, but I call it pragmatism.

They do not oppose Trump because, for all his chaos, he delivers: votes, influence, and the undying loyalty of a base that would rather set fire to the house than let someone else redecorate.

You want them to stop him? Then give them a better deal. Because until the cost of standing with him exceeds the cost of standing against him, you’ll find that their spines are right where they’ve always been firmly in alignment with their best interests.

Obvious how. Because he won't say what other want him to say.
Zelensky needs to come to the table because that's how agreements are thrashed out. Of course Ukraine is not going to get everything it wishes. That is not how it works, EVER. Swallow your pride, be realistic or keep fighting till Russia takes over mire if your territory and more innocent Ukraine people die. Your choice. Ukraine will not be able to demand everything in its favour, any fool can see this. Too much emotio s cloud people's thinking. Let me say it again.... Ukraine will NOT get everything it wants. Face that now or face it a year down the road with most likely in a worse position.

The loans are being used to purchase equipment, primarily from US companies. So when the USA loans Ukraine money, it is in the knowledge that almost all (if not all) is coming back into the US economy, benefitting the US. And Ukraine will still owe the money as well.

Double benefit to the USA.

@Odin2018 could you tell
Me when it was documented that the help was 'loans' ' that had to be paid back ??

That's not how loans work.

You know someone. He owns a furniture shop. He lends you some money.
You need a chair so go into his shop and buy 2 chairs.
Can you say to the person, I have bought 2 chairs from your shop so I don't owe you the money anymore?

Talk sense please.

Elon musk and DOGE have found some of the payments listed as LOANS. I am sure it will be presented to Zelensky.

we're done paying and paying and paying for your defense.

We’re pretty pissed off with paying for yours too. Have you paid us anything for the numerous wars the UK has helped you out with in the last 30 years? And God knows you had enough interest on the loan for WWll - it took us 60 years to pay that off.

But, to the extent the US's contributions were made as loans, they are also repayable by Ukraine. The shop owner gets their chairs and their money (along with accumulated interest) back.

That should be, the shop owner gets to sell their chairs, and gets their money back.

@Odin2018 that's fair enough if they have - but it's strange they haven't provided this evidence as of yet and if it wasn't the case and they've been doctoring anything ( and I wouldn't put that past Musk) then the democrats will I'm sure pipe up about it -

Well, if the loan was given specifically to buy those chairs, then the lender does get a double benefit.

That's why companies offer low/no interest loans to customers buying their products. They don't offer the same loans to customers buying their competitors products.

The hit they take in the interest on the loan is more than covered by the profit they make on the sale.

The USA's loans to Ukraine have given a huge shot in the arm to the US arms industry, and therefore benefited the US economy.

@BIossomtoes - indeed. And let's thank them too for causing a major crash here in 2008 that lasted years and years thanks to all their reckless mortgage lending in the US - did they offer us all compensation! - America seems to forget that whenever they do something reckless then the rest of the western world catches the cold. I for one am fed up of their sanctimonious hectoring that being paid back for assistance seems a one way street.

Well, we know that some of the contributions were made as loans. Around $4bn. It was announced at the time. The US is due to be repaid by 2065 and, in the meantime, the funds have been used to buy US arms.

I can't find any reporting that suggests DOGE have uncovered additional loans but, even if true - if there's no loan agreement, it does not matter how the US Treasury decides to record them.

Well, if Ukraine doesn't want to pay it back to America then they don't want or need any further money or help from America . Obviously they don't need it as the European countries are better allies and Ukraine will pay them back and the Europeans will fund the war from now on for Ukraine.

So Americas fault if the UK can't survive on its own two feet? I see. Just blame America. It's all their fault., always. So everyone hates America because they are so reliant on America? Who's fault is that? America's?