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Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference

359 replies

BusyExpert · 01/03/2025 17:10

Konstantin Kristin who is much more knowledgable about events in Ukraine has posted this on his substack. I repeat it here to see if has any effect on the uninformed hysteria being spouted.He explains far better than I could why Zelensky blew it. His ego got in the way and he failed to put it his country before his own ego which was not, as has been the norm from world leaders, been massaged.

Kristin says
"Before we address the in the Oval Office yesterday, a bunch of disclaimers are sadly necessary. Such are the times we live in.
If you are unfamiliar with my work, when Vladimir Putin’s troops invaded Ukraine in 2022, I went on one of the in Britain to express my shame for what Russia was doing and to call on our leaders to support Volodymyr Zelensky in defence of his country. In the weeks that followed, I gave interview after interview and participated in endless debates about our involvement in Ukraine. On TRIGGERnometry, we raised the best part of $100,000 in two hours for Ukrainian charities. My wife and I have sent supplies, clothing and our own money to friends, family and strangers in Ukraine to help them deal with the brutality of war and Russia’s deliberate targeting of Ukraine’s energy systems. Only last week, I described Trump’s labelling of Zelensky as a “dictator” as “absurd”. I can hardly be accused of being a Putin shill. Indeed, my feelings on the subject are so strong that when I saw a short clip of JD Vance and Donald Trump lambasting Volodymyr Zelensky in front of TV cameras last night, like most people, I assumed that this was yet another example of President Trump strong-arming Ukraine into accepting a rushed and unfavourable ceasefire with Russia. To my embarrassment, I tweeted as much.

Having complained only last week of journalists clipping my words out of context, I fell victim to the same trick myself. When I later watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal, and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with JD Vance. This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, interrupt and argue with Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.

So, why did this happen and how can peace be salvaged? To understand why Zelensky acted the way he did, you have to consider the reality he has been operating in:

For the last 3 years, he has led his country in a heroic defence against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian POWs on their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken. He has spoken with Ukrainian parents whose childrenhave been stolen and taken to Russia.

During the same time period, he has received in every room he has entered. In Europe, across the political spectrum, Ukraine’s cause is seen as just, righteous and important for our collective safety. Foreign leaders have travelled to Kiev for photo ops with him. He has spoken in every major parliament in the world. Praise and attention have been lavished on him from every direction. At every turn, he has been told “we stand with Ukraine”, “Slava Ukraine” and so on.
This is one of the reasons his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality. During the press conference he argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that in history “whoever starts the war, pays”. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true: in history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.
For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office yesterday would have been a shock. The fact is that MAGA, the dominant force in the world’s leading nation, does not share the European view of President Zelensky. You may agree or disagree, but to the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, President Zelensky - and forgive me for putting this bluntly- is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for more money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win. Most of these perceptions stem primarily from domestic American politics and the hatred MAGA has for anyone and anything President Biden touched. Most Americans don’t know where Ukraine is and have no reason to care. To them, this is just another “forever war” like Iraq and Afghanistan.
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In other words, President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him, and don’t particularly care about his “just and righteous cause” were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you are attempting to convert other people’s good will into hard currency, that is the bare minimum. And for 40 minutes, Zelensky just about managed.

The rationale for the argument he then instigated with JD Vance is not without merit. As I explained in my last video, Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached. Therefore, the only way to prevent another invasion is through a permanent presence of European or American troops in between Russia and Ukraine. He kept making this point over and over during the press conference and did so diplomatically enough.

But the way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid. Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in a Youtube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this was not a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side. And the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re all on the same side is President Zelensky, or, more importantly, his nation. The arguments about security guarantees should have been made with tact, diplomacy, and in private.

To make things worse, he followed this unfortunate error with another, much bigger one. In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that in Europe we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.

These arguments don’t wash in America and what’s worse, Americans HATE people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why, I believe, President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.

None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly. But they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons, and diplomatic support. Their job is to look generous and find a route to peace. Zelensky’s job is to realise that he stopped being a human being when he became President of a country reliant on foreign aid to survive. He does not have the luxury of righteousness and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did."

OP posts:
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Kendodd · 02/03/2025 11:39

I agree that Zelensky could have handled that much, much better. He should have been heaping praise and gratitude and America and Trump, like Stamer was forced to, as this is the only language Trump understands. He should have lied through his teeth about what a great man Trump is. Zelensky refused to degrade himself this way.

MushMonster · 02/03/2025 11:39

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 11:28

@MushMonster would you then send troops to Ukraine without US security?

If there's combat do you stay and send more?

At present, no. The negotiations will carry on. All efforts will be on keeping this open, without egos getting in the way. I trust the Europeans to appease all sides, behind closed doors, in the old fashion. Let's hope Trump can get into the habit of closing the door, with the press outside! And avoid posting AI videos. But if not, well his loss really. What can we do?

If they fully fail, then yes. Alongside massive sanctions. If Putin does not take his troops back to Russia, then it will be a full on war against him.

MushMonster · 02/03/2025 11:41

@EasternStandard I can join the army myself, if that need comes along.

zendeveloper · 02/03/2025 11:42

And since when Kristin is an authority on Ukraine? He's an alt-right comedian and influencer with a wealthy Russian dad. What specifically makes his opinion valuable?

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 11:48

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 11:27

@kattaduck NATO isn't dead but if it does become so we're all in deep shit. That's the problem.

Sunday’s summit is likely to include talks on establishing a European military force to be sent to Ukraine to underpin a ceasefire.

So far we've offered 30k peacekeepers only with US security.

Do you want to go ahead without US security and how many troops are you willing to send?

Well I think NATO is in peril but if the only way to keep it is to give up our own sovereignty when helping other nations should we do it? That is not an alliance. Elon is already questioning a need for NATO and Trump is heavily relying on him I'm afraid. At least the nuclear detergents are still there.

Well that's what we offered so far let's see what follows or if the US is willing to help. But at least we offered something. And managed not to falsely call someone a dictator or an invader in the process.

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 11:52

I'd recommend reading the BBC article below. It outlines how reliant we are on the US.

cardibach · 02/03/2025 12:04

Kendodd · 02/03/2025 11:39

I agree that Zelensky could have handled that much, much better. He should have been heaping praise and gratitude and America and Trump, like Stamer was forced to, as this is the only language Trump understands. He should have lied through his teeth about what a great man Trump is. Zelensky refused to degrade himself this way.

When it’s diplomacy it’s not degrading. But I didn’t see Zelenskyy do anything wrong anyway. And however flattering he was Trump wasn’t going to offer the security America (and Russia) promised after Ukraine gave up its nuclear defence as he’s too close to Putin.

cardibach · 02/03/2025 12:05

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 11:52

I'd recommend reading the BBC article below. It outlines how reliant we are on the US.

I’m sure we are. But that doesn’t mean we can’t change the situation

DodoTired · 02/03/2025 12:06

@TempestTost

I have very clearly said in my post that if Putin gets Ukraine (non NATO member) he will next target either the Baltic states or Poland (who are all NATO members). The ideal scenario that Russia is forever too weak to do that, and fighting in Ukraine achieves that

Vaxtable · 02/03/2025 12:09

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 11:36

@MushMonster this is a good article which asks whether Europe can go it alone with US

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czjeejw9z4zo.amp

It's pretty much no, we need them.

Do you have boys out of interest so you're including them in potential troops?

Why only boys?

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 12:10

@Vaxtable looking at Ukraine and who is made to fight but yes it could be both I suppose

DodoTired · 02/03/2025 12:13

Teencentral · 02/03/2025 08:50

There's a table in the Times today showing how much aid various countries have paid to Ukraine, the US has paid $114 billion next is Germany with $29 billion then the UK with $14 billion, I do think it's an absolutely valid question from the US as to why it is them that are paying so much.

The whole war in Ukraine from 2014 is the US idea and instigated by them, it benefits only them and not Ukraine or Europe.
funny that they are now presenting the aid as something that Ukrainians should be super grateful for
I’m sure if Victoria Nuland in 2014 mentioned to Ukraine that for all their Western alignment they’d have to sign off half of their mineral wealth, have 3 years of brutal war and then STILL be abandoned by their US allies to Putin they’d reconsidered their approach

OneAmberFinch · 02/03/2025 12:18

Thank you for posting this OP, and for the several contributors on this thread who have added extra context. I think the term "entering a vortex of reality" is spot-on.

It doesn't matter whether you think Ukraines's cause is just, Russia is the aggressor etc etc. It is the same with Israel/Palestine, people trying to drag up old maps and old agreements. They might be interesting inputs in a pub discussion but if you want to be able to make an informed guess on what is actually going to happen, it comes down to (has always come down to, will always come down to) hard military power.

I would like to add, re: JD Vance's comments - everyone is quoting the "you need to say thank you" line, but the bit before it is "come on, mate, you are resorting to conscription, your people are dying". Which is accurate.

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 12:28

I would like to add, re: JD Vance's comments - everyone is quoting the "you need to say thank you" line, but the bit before it is "come on, mate, you are resorting to conscription, your people are dying". Which is accurate.

the reality for Russia is 700,000 missing or dead, Putin using prisoners to fight and using troops form North Korea - people are conscripted in wars to fight for their country.

If you want to make an informed guess on what is going to happen - China is going to be doing very well from this. The world is not trusting US or Russia after the display of going back on the agreements from decades ago. That leads US in a different position from normal as countries and companies will show their disdain in different ways. Which leave China prime to take advantage

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 12:30

Teencentral

what is the total that Europe has donated? I can find €132 which compared with US is a greater sum

MushMonster · 02/03/2025 12:39

I have heard and read several sources saying that, as a whole, Europe has contributed more. And not all of it is backed by Russian's assets profits or loans. Both Macron and Starmer corrected Trump on that.
I do understand that Trump wants some money and for Europe States to step up. I fully get it. He started the ball of the negotiations, thanks. But he then glorifies Putin, calls Zelensky dictator, blanks Ukraine off the negotiating table, does not invite any European State either, this latest show in the Oval Office. This only plays on Putin's hands and ego. Poses US against Europe, so weakens NATO stand. In front of the whole world. Welll, that is not acceptable. Not for Europe.
I do agree China may very well benefit out of this.
Certainly, a lot of the geopolitical landscape just shifted.

AlisonDonut · 02/03/2025 12:41

zendeveloper · 02/03/2025 11:42

And since when Kristin is an authority on Ukraine? He's an alt-right comedian and influencer with a wealthy Russian dad. What specifically makes his opinion valuable?

Who is Kristin?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/03/2025 12:45

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 11:36

@MushMonster this is a good article which asks whether Europe can go it alone with US

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czjeejw9z4zo.amp

It's pretty much no, we need them.

Do you have boys out of interest so you're including them in potential troops?

I admit to being surprised to see that from the BBC, EasternStandard, but that we "need them" is a given, however much some like to pretend otherwise because they don't like who's been elected

Talk of preparing to go ahead without the US is all very well, but as ever such ideas lack the detail which would inevitably push them into failure

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/03/2025 12:50

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 12:30

Teencentral

what is the total that Europe has donated? I can find €132 which compared with US is a greater sum

Here you go, @MikeRafone: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/

You'll see that the EU Commission/Council has given just short of 49 billion euros, and if you add that to the contributions from individual nations it does indeed exceed those from the US - but of course the US is one nation and the EU isn't

thepariscrimefiles · 02/03/2025 12:55

UnGattino · 02/03/2025 10:34

Kisin (you even spelt his name wrong) is a British citizen with a British passport.

He’s even written an entire book about how much he loves the West. He speaks often about his love of Soviet writers including Alexander Solzhenitsyn and Vasily Grossman (dissenting voices who paid the price for speaking out against Soviet doctrine).

What an unbelievably ignorant and crass comment.

He also said that "He’s a brown Hindu; how is he English?” about Rishi Sunak. I'd take what he says with a pinch of salt. He certainly isn't someone I would implicitly trust.

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 12:56

OneAmberFinch · 02/03/2025 12:18

Thank you for posting this OP, and for the several contributors on this thread who have added extra context. I think the term "entering a vortex of reality" is spot-on.

It doesn't matter whether you think Ukraines's cause is just, Russia is the aggressor etc etc. It is the same with Israel/Palestine, people trying to drag up old maps and old agreements. They might be interesting inputs in a pub discussion but if you want to be able to make an informed guess on what is actually going to happen, it comes down to (has always come down to, will always come down to) hard military power.

I would like to add, re: JD Vance's comments - everyone is quoting the "you need to say thank you" line, but the bit before it is "come on, mate, you are resorting to conscription, your people are dying". Which is accurate.

The alternative feels like the vortex of SM and it's concerning to see how people snowball so easily.

Appreciate the realism and hope the leaders listen to sense rather than measuring anything by SM or optics.

radiatorcat · 02/03/2025 13:03

Not read the full thread, but wanted to say that the ONLY time Article 5 of NATO has ever been invoked was after 9/11 in defence of the USA. And that involved 26 European countries providing support to the USA.

So fuck Trump/Vance and their fucking 'Thank yous'.

If Putin is appeased (and therefore emboldened) then NATO counties are next. That is WW3 and that's us in the firing line. The long term risks for us outweigh the short term gains for Trump.

Trump/USA is not supporting Europe while we are vulnerable. So seriously, fuck him and the people who voted for him.

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 13:07

I would like to add, re: JD Vance's comments - everyone is quoting the "you need to say thank you" line, but the bit before it is "come on, mate, you are resorting to conscription, your people are dying". Which is accurate.

I mean Ukraine has conscripts, Rusdia has conscripts, NK has them too.
So would Britain if attacked. I really don't see what the bomb shell revelation is here. The lie after that though is offensive.

PebbleJus · 02/03/2025 13:08

radiatorcat
If Putin is appeased (and therefore emboldened) then NATO counties are next. That is WW3 and that's us in the firing line. The long term risks for us outweigh the short term gains for Trump.

Not to mention that China is watching and taking notes.

TaggieO · 02/03/2025 13:16

ZooAccountant · 02/03/2025 10:21

The fact you think Putin wants Britain is hilarious 🤣

Edited

Do you literally have no idea how dictators work?

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