Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference

359 replies

BusyExpert · 01/03/2025 17:10

Konstantin Kristin who is much more knowledgable about events in Ukraine has posted this on his substack. I repeat it here to see if has any effect on the uninformed hysteria being spouted.He explains far better than I could why Zelensky blew it. His ego got in the way and he failed to put it his country before his own ego which was not, as has been the norm from world leaders, been massaged.

Kristin says
"Before we address the in the Oval Office yesterday, a bunch of disclaimers are sadly necessary. Such are the times we live in.
If you are unfamiliar with my work, when Vladimir Putin’s troops invaded Ukraine in 2022, I went on one of the in Britain to express my shame for what Russia was doing and to call on our leaders to support Volodymyr Zelensky in defence of his country. In the weeks that followed, I gave interview after interview and participated in endless debates about our involvement in Ukraine. On TRIGGERnometry, we raised the best part of $100,000 in two hours for Ukrainian charities. My wife and I have sent supplies, clothing and our own money to friends, family and strangers in Ukraine to help them deal with the brutality of war and Russia’s deliberate targeting of Ukraine’s energy systems. Only last week, I described Trump’s labelling of Zelensky as a “dictator” as “absurd”. I can hardly be accused of being a Putin shill. Indeed, my feelings on the subject are so strong that when I saw a short clip of JD Vance and Donald Trump lambasting Volodymyr Zelensky in front of TV cameras last night, like most people, I assumed that this was yet another example of President Trump strong-arming Ukraine into accepting a rushed and unfavourable ceasefire with Russia. To my embarrassment, I tweeted as much.

Having complained only last week of journalists clipping my words out of context, I fell victim to the same trick myself. When I later watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal, and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with JD Vance. This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, interrupt and argue with Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.

So, why did this happen and how can peace be salvaged? To understand why Zelensky acted the way he did, you have to consider the reality he has been operating in:

For the last 3 years, he has led his country in a heroic defence against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian POWs on their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken. He has spoken with Ukrainian parents whose childrenhave been stolen and taken to Russia.

During the same time period, he has received in every room he has entered. In Europe, across the political spectrum, Ukraine’s cause is seen as just, righteous and important for our collective safety. Foreign leaders have travelled to Kiev for photo ops with him. He has spoken in every major parliament in the world. Praise and attention have been lavished on him from every direction. At every turn, he has been told “we stand with Ukraine”, “Slava Ukraine” and so on.
This is one of the reasons his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality. During the press conference he argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that in history “whoever starts the war, pays”. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true: in history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.
For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office yesterday would have been a shock. The fact is that MAGA, the dominant force in the world’s leading nation, does not share the European view of President Zelensky. You may agree or disagree, but to the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, President Zelensky - and forgive me for putting this bluntly- is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for more money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win. Most of these perceptions stem primarily from domestic American politics and the hatred MAGA has for anyone and anything President Biden touched. Most Americans don’t know where Ukraine is and have no reason to care. To them, this is just another “forever war” like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Share

In other words, President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him, and don’t particularly care about his “just and righteous cause” were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you are attempting to convert other people’s good will into hard currency, that is the bare minimum. And for 40 minutes, Zelensky just about managed.

The rationale for the argument he then instigated with JD Vance is not without merit. As I explained in my last video, Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached. Therefore, the only way to prevent another invasion is through a permanent presence of European or American troops in between Russia and Ukraine. He kept making this point over and over during the press conference and did so diplomatically enough.

But the way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid. Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in a Youtube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this was not a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side. And the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re all on the same side is President Zelensky, or, more importantly, his nation. The arguments about security guarantees should have been made with tact, diplomacy, and in private.

To make things worse, he followed this unfortunate error with another, much bigger one. In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that in Europe we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.

These arguments don’t wash in America and what’s worse, Americans HATE people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why, I believe, President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.

None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly. But they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons, and diplomatic support. Their job is to look generous and find a route to peace. Zelensky’s job is to realise that he stopped being a human being when he became President of a country reliant on foreign aid to survive. He does not have the luxury of righteousness and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did."

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
kattaduck · 02/03/2025 10:31

Cleardays · 02/03/2025 10:16

Putin could not even defeat Ukraine. I presume he would eventually, but God knows in How many years, and the cost to Russia would be huge.

I just don’t think Putin would then start invading other countries. His military is clearly not up to it. He may not have realised this when he invaded Ukraine, but he will now.

The best way to end this, the only way, is to give him a way out.

I’m not sure what you think ‘stopping Russia’ means other than this? No one wants WW3 with Russia.

Putin has an endless supply of soldiers to throw into the meat grinder and the only reason he hasn't won is exactly because the West has been staying strong. He knows though that Nato is in crisis and that attacking another country the US might not chip in.

He has a way out. Signing a cease fire and plundering his side if the minerals. And giving Ukraine a chance to rebuild securely. Saving loots of money for his citizens in the process ( and possibly repaying China no clue what deal they have)

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 10:33

SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 10:27

I hope the leaders zelensky meets today and the strong message from the nato chief help to calm zelensky down and help him re think things.

NATO sound good, Rutte is aware that US is needed and if they pull out we're all in deep shit

He should be there and will be straightforward.

Leaders thinking of polling and optics for their domestic audience is media fluff

The real issue is keeping US in NATO

SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 10:34

Agree katta, any pause isn't just a chance of putin rebuilding it's also a chance for Ukraine to as well.
All sorts can be done for Ukraine if they can get out of this current deadlock

UnGattino · 02/03/2025 10:34

tinageta · 01/03/2025 22:28

Kissin is a Russian. Born in Moscow. A leopard does not change its spots.

Kisin (you even spelt his name wrong) is a British citizen with a British passport.

He’s even written an entire book about how much he loves the West. He speaks often about his love of Soviet writers including Alexander Solzhenitsyn and Vasily Grossman (dissenting voices who paid the price for speaking out against Soviet doctrine).

What an unbelievably ignorant and crass comment.

Lovemybunnies · 02/03/2025 10:35

There is no justification for what happened.

SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 10:36

@EasternStandard by showing the USA they are a truly strong partner and ally not reliant and weak.
Which is the move they should have made years ago.
None of this is particularly new, Obama said nato needs to step up back in 2016 and even Biden became frustrated with zelensky years ago re asking for more aid.

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 10:39

SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 10:36

@EasternStandard by showing the USA they are a truly strong partner and ally not reliant and weak.
Which is the move they should have made years ago.
None of this is particularly new, Obama said nato needs to step up back in 2016 and even Biden became frustrated with zelensky years ago re asking for more aid.

Yes that needs to happen,

Rutte was pretty blunt on what Zelenskyy needs to do. Repair the relationship as a priority.

He knows how threatened NATO is if they walk from Ukraine and maybe them

Porcuporpoise · 02/03/2025 10:44

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 10:31

Putin has an endless supply of soldiers to throw into the meat grinder and the only reason he hasn't won is exactly because the West has been staying strong. He knows though that Nato is in crisis and that attacking another country the US might not chip in.

He has a way out. Signing a cease fire and plundering his side if the minerals. And giving Ukraine a chance to rebuild securely. Saving loots of money for his citizens in the process ( and possibly repaying China no clue what deal they have)

Actually he doesn't have an endless supply - he's been bending over backwards (using prisoners, calling in N Korean troops) to try and limit conscription because he fears widespread dissent back home. The war has proved very expensive to Russia with not much to show for it.

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 10:45

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 10:33

NATO sound good, Rutte is aware that US is needed and if they pull out we're all in deep shit

He should be there and will be straightforward.

Leaders thinking of polling and optics for their domestic audience is media fluff

The real issue is keeping US in NATO

NATO has never been about all leaders agreeing politically.
If Trump pulls out because Europe decides to support Ukraine he would have pulled out anyway. NATO is supposed to be a partnership not a dictatorship.
Anyway seems UK, France and Ukraine are working on a peace plan and will include the US too. Including an European peace force. The way it should have been done in the first place.

MushMonster · 02/03/2025 10:49

Cleardays · 02/03/2025 10:16

Putin could not even defeat Ukraine. I presume he would eventually, but God knows in How many years, and the cost to Russia would be huge.

I just don’t think Putin would then start invading other countries. His military is clearly not up to it. He may not have realised this when he invaded Ukraine, but he will now.

The best way to end this, the only way, is to give him a way out.

I’m not sure what you think ‘stopping Russia’ means other than this? No one wants WW3 with Russia.

I do want a ceasefire indeed.
And Putin out of power.
Not a winning Putin.

SquirrelSoShiny · 02/03/2025 10:50

TriathlonTriathlonTriathlon · 01/03/2025 21:14

I’m going to take New York, because I’m ’worried about them invading me’. It’s just a bit of land and it doesn’t matter, I’m going to kill women and children whilst I do it.

How would trump react to that?

What we witnessed was bullying, trump saying ‘we made you brave’ is because his fragile ego is triggered by an incredibly brave man, when he’s a draft dodger.

No one in real life I know talks like you, but they’re all out on mumsnet today. I have friends incidentally from a wide political spectrum and lots of friends who work on defence intelligence. This is nonsense.

This. Trump, Vance, Putin - all small children hiding in the bodies of grown men. Of course Zelensky makes them feel small. He's everything they are not.

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 10:52

@kattaduck no your post isn't matching what I'm saying, it's not about the stuff you mention.

Read Rutte's statement on Zelenskjy. He is aware of the threat so has advised he repair it with Trump.

The issue with the US is the security and whether Z will sign without it.

UnGattino · 02/03/2025 10:53

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/03/2025 01:30

The right wing, Russian commentator Konstantin Kristin?

To quote Mandy Rice-Davies, "He would say that wouldn't he?"😆

Mandy Rice-Davies didn’t say that, you’ve misquoted her. What she actually said in court was, "Well he would, wouldn't he?"

Another thing then you got wrong is accusing Kisin of being right wing: If you knew anything about him and were familiar with his book then you’d know that he’s a liberal.

But anyone that doesn’t agree with me is right wing these days, right.

Valeriekat · 02/03/2025 10:53

TriathlonTriathlonTriathlon · 01/03/2025 21:15

Oh and if Putin takes what he wants in Ukraine? Wait and see which nato country he comes for, it’ll be a remote piece of land somewhere inconsequential, but when we don’t retaliate, article 5 is useless.

But he won't will he? He actually hasn't done a very good job in Ukraine. It is a stalemate.

MushMonster · 02/03/2025 10:53

Porcuporpoise · 02/03/2025 10:26

Do you strike deals and alliances by trying to publicly humiliate your allies? What line of business are you in again?

You can attribute what we are seeing to great guile and cunning if you wish but it looks like overinflated egos and crass stupidity to me.

Fully agree with Porcupine.
Nobody needs to suck up to Putin. To offer that table for the negotiations, yes.
To repeteadly insult Ukraine, Zelensky and by extention Europe, and look like you are Russia's ally, this does not classify as diplomacy, at all.

SquirrelSoShiny · 02/03/2025 10:54

I actually like Kisin overall but he needs to read the room on this one, not because he's entirely wrong but the civilised world is reeling from Vance's flagrant ambush. Follow the money trail on how that one ended up as VP. Trump is a malignant narcissist with dementia beginning to show. He's the puppet not the master. The sooner the world and the MAGA base remember that the better.

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 10:55

Porcuporpoise · 02/03/2025 10:44

Actually he doesn't have an endless supply - he's been bending over backwards (using prisoners, calling in N Korean troops) to try and limit conscription because he fears widespread dissent back home. The war has proved very expensive to Russia with not much to show for it.

Well maybe. Or maybe using prisoners and North Korean soldiers is pretty convenient.
Conscription is always there and I wouldn't be so sure about dissent.

But I agree the war had been pretty costly and he'll probably won't advance this year or the year after that. And he'll probably just take something like Latvia or Estonia. But If the US has pulled out of NATO by then and he has bought more weapons he'll might take it faster.

Pootlemcsmootle · 02/03/2025 10:56

Oh please, he and Vance were bloody embarrassing. It was a clown show. Zelensky is a President. A world leader. You don't shit all over another foreign dignitary.

Plus Russia invaded Ukraine. You want Zelensky to beg for Russia to stop invading them? No way. Zelensky has done nothing but protect his people. He has self respect so he isn't going to bow like the pathetic shills in the GOP bow to their new King.

Here's how the war ends: Russia the invader stops invading and dropping bombs on a country that showed them nothing but peace. That's it.

Cleardays · 02/03/2025 10:58

Porcuporpoise · 02/03/2025 10:26

Do you strike deals and alliances by trying to publicly humiliate your allies? What line of business are you in again?

You can attribute what we are seeing to great guile and cunning if you wish but it looks like overinflated egos and crass stupidity to me.

If you read all my posts you will see that I quite clearly talk about the egos of T&V and that I found that conference a disgusting spectacle.

If you read my later posts you will also see I am clearly outlining what I believe others are saying the merits of this approach are.

It is possible that egos are on display ( they always are with Trump) and that the approach of pacifying Putin’s own ego may have some merit.

I have no idea what precise approach will work, but I do think offering Putin a way out of the war he finds agreeable is the only way out of the war. Or at least I have not heard anyone suggest anything else that sounds feasible.

wholettheturnipsburn · 02/03/2025 11:00

Why a time to be alive when. You have to toady to a toddler

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 11:00

Putin could not even defeat Ukraine. I presume he would eventually, but God knows in How many years, and the cost to Russia would be huge.

So Russia isn't as strong as they thought, has not won the war easily

I just don’t think Putin would then start invading other countries. His military is clearly not up to it. He may not have realised this when he invaded Ukraine, but he will now.

Russia has now realised they are not insect good shape for war

The best way to end this, the only way, is to give him a way out.
I’m not sure what you think ‘stopping Russia’ means other than this?

No one wants WW3 with Russia.

Yet Russia isn't as strong as they thought, they haven't won this war they started - obviously no one wants WW3 but Russia isn't likely to be as much a threat according to your previous statements?

Cleardays · 02/03/2025 11:02

MushMonster · 02/03/2025 10:49

I do want a ceasefire indeed.
And Putin out of power.
Not a winning Putin.

All you have said is what you want.

That is not the same as what is acheivable

Wishes aren’t reality.

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 11:02

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 10:52

@kattaduck no your post isn't matching what I'm saying, it's not about the stuff you mention.

Read Rutte's statement on Zelenskjy. He is aware of the threat so has advised he repair it with Trump.

The issue with the US is the security and whether Z will sign without it.

He knows how threatened NATO is if they walk from Ukraine and maybe them.

Why would the US walk from NATO over Ukraine unless they wanted to do it in the first place?

And Trump kicked Zelensky out because Trump didn't want to give the security Zelensky needed. Seems Europe is willing to do that. Trump should be welcoming Zelensky back with open arms because that's we he wanted in the first place ( without including Europe in the peace talks though)

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/03/2025 11:03

Ponoka7 · 01/03/2025 21:51

You are wasting your time, Zelensky is the new Captain Tom/Clapping for the NHS.

You're not wrong, Ponoka7, and speaking of clapping I'm reminded of the recent Auschwitz commemoration where Zelensky got a round of applause as he went up to lay his candle

Quite apart frrom the issue of whether this was the time and place (and personally I don't believe it was) there were others present who are struggling with severe problems in their homelands, but it was Zelensky who was focused on

Possibly, though, it may have been a case of one person starting to clap and others following because they didn't want to be seen as "out of step" ... who knows?

Wordau · 02/03/2025 11:04

Sharty · 01/03/2025 21:49

What people don’t understand is that in the world of politics, it’s not important whether you’re right. And while British people like our politicians to be polite, this isn’t universal across other countries. A lot of Americans prefer straight talking even if it veers towards rudeness. I mean it’s literally why they voted for Trump. If you’re in Zelenskyy’s position you have to be clever, you don’t have the luxury of being right.

I have to agree with this as much as it pains me.

All the leaders simpering around Trump makes me feel queasy.

But he's a volatile manchild and you have to play the game.

Zelenskyy - understandably - didn't want to, but it's not turned out well for him. He was told by advisors beforehand to play nice and not make it about the security guarantee. Who knows if Trump would have fucked him over on that - maybe. I mean he called him a dictator last week then denied it a few days later.

Trump and his supporters will love it as it looks like a moment of American strength against a man whose accent sounds a bit like the baddies in action movies.