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Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference

359 replies

BusyExpert · 01/03/2025 17:10

Konstantin Kristin who is much more knowledgable about events in Ukraine has posted this on his substack. I repeat it here to see if has any effect on the uninformed hysteria being spouted.He explains far better than I could why Zelensky blew it. His ego got in the way and he failed to put it his country before his own ego which was not, as has been the norm from world leaders, been massaged.

Kristin says
"Before we address the in the Oval Office yesterday, a bunch of disclaimers are sadly necessary. Such are the times we live in.
If you are unfamiliar with my work, when Vladimir Putin’s troops invaded Ukraine in 2022, I went on one of the in Britain to express my shame for what Russia was doing and to call on our leaders to support Volodymyr Zelensky in defence of his country. In the weeks that followed, I gave interview after interview and participated in endless debates about our involvement in Ukraine. On TRIGGERnometry, we raised the best part of $100,000 in two hours for Ukrainian charities. My wife and I have sent supplies, clothing and our own money to friends, family and strangers in Ukraine to help them deal with the brutality of war and Russia’s deliberate targeting of Ukraine’s energy systems. Only last week, I described Trump’s labelling of Zelensky as a “dictator” as “absurd”. I can hardly be accused of being a Putin shill. Indeed, my feelings on the subject are so strong that when I saw a short clip of JD Vance and Donald Trump lambasting Volodymyr Zelensky in front of TV cameras last night, like most people, I assumed that this was yet another example of President Trump strong-arming Ukraine into accepting a rushed and unfavourable ceasefire with Russia. To my embarrassment, I tweeted as much.

Having complained only last week of journalists clipping my words out of context, I fell victim to the same trick myself. When I later watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal, and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with JD Vance. This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, interrupt and argue with Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.

So, why did this happen and how can peace be salvaged? To understand why Zelensky acted the way he did, you have to consider the reality he has been operating in:

For the last 3 years, he has led his country in a heroic defence against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian POWs on their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken. He has spoken with Ukrainian parents whose childrenhave been stolen and taken to Russia.

During the same time period, he has received in every room he has entered. In Europe, across the political spectrum, Ukraine’s cause is seen as just, righteous and important for our collective safety. Foreign leaders have travelled to Kiev for photo ops with him. He has spoken in every major parliament in the world. Praise and attention have been lavished on him from every direction. At every turn, he has been told “we stand with Ukraine”, “Slava Ukraine” and so on.
This is one of the reasons his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality. During the press conference he argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that in history “whoever starts the war, pays”. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true: in history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.
For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office yesterday would have been a shock. The fact is that MAGA, the dominant force in the world’s leading nation, does not share the European view of President Zelensky. You may agree or disagree, but to the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, President Zelensky - and forgive me for putting this bluntly- is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for more money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win. Most of these perceptions stem primarily from domestic American politics and the hatred MAGA has for anyone and anything President Biden touched. Most Americans don’t know where Ukraine is and have no reason to care. To them, this is just another “forever war” like Iraq and Afghanistan.
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In other words, President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him, and don’t particularly care about his “just and righteous cause” were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you are attempting to convert other people’s good will into hard currency, that is the bare minimum. And for 40 minutes, Zelensky just about managed.

The rationale for the argument he then instigated with JD Vance is not without merit. As I explained in my last video, Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached. Therefore, the only way to prevent another invasion is through a permanent presence of European or American troops in between Russia and Ukraine. He kept making this point over and over during the press conference and did so diplomatically enough.

But the way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid. Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in a Youtube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this was not a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side. And the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re all on the same side is President Zelensky, or, more importantly, his nation. The arguments about security guarantees should have been made with tact, diplomacy, and in private.

To make things worse, he followed this unfortunate error with another, much bigger one. In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that in Europe we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.

These arguments don’t wash in America and what’s worse, Americans HATE people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why, I believe, President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.

None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly. But they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons, and diplomatic support. Their job is to look generous and find a route to peace. Zelensky’s job is to realise that he stopped being a human being when he became President of a country reliant on foreign aid to survive. He does not have the luxury of righteousness and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did."

OP posts:
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5
TriathlonTriathlonTriathlon · 01/03/2025 21:14

I’m going to take New York, because I’m ’worried about them invading me’. It’s just a bit of land and it doesn’t matter, I’m going to kill women and children whilst I do it.

How would trump react to that?

What we witnessed was bullying, trump saying ‘we made you brave’ is because his fragile ego is triggered by an incredibly brave man, when he’s a draft dodger.

No one in real life I know talks like you, but they’re all out on mumsnet today. I have friends incidentally from a wide political spectrum and lots of friends who work on defence intelligence. This is nonsense.

TriathlonTriathlonTriathlon · 01/03/2025 21:15

Oh and if Putin takes what he wants in Ukraine? Wait and see which nato country he comes for, it’ll be a remote piece of land somewhere inconsequential, but when we don’t retaliate, article 5 is useless.

Vaxtable · 01/03/2025 21:18

Zelenskyy was set up by the two bully boys. That’s obvious

cardibach · 01/03/2025 21:18

Zelenskyy did nothing wrong. I don’t care how much that person says the6 know, their points are irrelevant when you accept that. He was perfectly polite and respectful and Trump and Vance attacked him. We all saw it.

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:21

I agree with everything in your OP.

What Trump and Vance said was true - but their delivery was extremely unfortunate and made Zelenskyy, who stayed calm, look like a hero.

When Trump said Z was going to start WW3 he was right.

I think the hysteria is a bit like Brexit mark II, those who shout loudest etc - not necessarily what the majority are thinking, but most can't be arsed getting into it and being called "evil bigots" "rape apologists" "thick" etc.

I wonder how many of those spouting unfailing (and never ending) support for Ukraine (70% of who's population want the war to end NOW) will be happy to wave their sons and grandsons off to war?

It's all well and good to want to appear virtuous and be on the "good guys" side - but the reality is giving Ukraine more money and support is just dragging this out even longer and putting our country in a very dangerous position - especially now the US are out.

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:25

cardibach · 01/03/2025 21:18

Zelenskyy did nothing wrong. I don’t care how much that person says the6 know, their points are irrelevant when you accept that. He was perfectly polite and respectful and Trump and Vance attacked him. We all saw it.

Did you watch it all? He stayed calm and therefore seemingly came off "better". He wasn't really polite and respectful though. He went in there to sign a peace treaty and then tried to push it too far (when he really isn't in a position to do so) - Trump was correct when he said Z isn't holding the cards and shouldn't act like it.

He overplayed his hand and lost basically.

I agree that T and V looked like aggressive bullish twats the way they both tag-teamed him, but what they were saying was correct.

People are getting far too emotive about this. Use your heads.

wherearemypastnames · 01/03/2025 21:35

Use your head

When someone acts like a bully when they hold all the cards - they are clearly pretty incompetent and pretty nasty people

When trying to arrange peace between people it helps to show them respect and treat them as humans not act like playground bully

cardibach · 01/03/2025 21:43

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:25

Did you watch it all? He stayed calm and therefore seemingly came off "better". He wasn't really polite and respectful though. He went in there to sign a peace treaty and then tried to push it too far (when he really isn't in a position to do so) - Trump was correct when he said Z isn't holding the cards and shouldn't act like it.

He overplayed his hand and lost basically.

I agree that T and V looked like aggressive bullish twats the way they both tag-teamed him, but what they were saying was correct.

People are getting far too emotive about this. Use your heads.

Yes, I’ve seen it all. He did none of things you suggest. Trump and Vance were unbelievably rude. No idea about basic human decency, never mind diplomacy. If you can’t see that it speaks very poorly of your own moral compass I’m afraid.

Sharty · 01/03/2025 21:49

What people don’t understand is that in the world of politics, it’s not important whether you’re right. And while British people like our politicians to be polite, this isn’t universal across other countries. A lot of Americans prefer straight talking even if it veers towards rudeness. I mean it’s literally why they voted for Trump. If you’re in Zelenskyy’s position you have to be clever, you don’t have the luxury of being right.

Ponoka7 · 01/03/2025 21:51

You are wasting your time, Zelensky is the new Captain Tom/Clapping for the NHS.

Maitri108 · 01/03/2025 21:52

Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached.

Who is this prick? It says on his wiki page that he's a comedian.

He doesn't understand that Putin is a ruthless dictator who has already signed several agreements with Ukraine, promising he'll stop invading and he keeps doing it.

This comedian thinks it's strange that Zelensky doesn't trust Putin and wants security.

He's mansplaining Zelensky's position and he hasn't made me laugh once.

Serpentstooth · 01/03/2025 21:55

The US has been taken over in a so far bloodless coup by the White House mafiosi currently styling themselves as Republicans. How that oaf and his gang start demanding 'respect' for the oval office is beyond laughable. I understand Zelensky has been invited to meet King Charles this weekend, unheard of for a royal to do an off the cuff meet if that is what it is. I do hope Trump has been able to refrain from throwing another kiddy tantrum over this. I think Musk's son called it right.

cardibach · 01/03/2025 21:59

Ponoka7 · 01/03/2025 21:51

You are wasting your time, Zelensky is the new Captain Tom/Clapping for the NHS.

No. He’s a man (despite his faults, nobody thanks he’s perfect) leading his people against a dictatorial aggressor and being disrespected by a little twat who avoided the draft himself and a hypocrite who called Trump ‘America’s Hitler’ before he saw an advantage in supporting him. Unless he thought that was a compliment, of course, which says something totally other.
Your posts on this matter are a bit of a disgrace - I’ve encountered you elsewhere.

hairbearbunches · 01/03/2025 22:05

Well, I’d rather other countries in Europe were taking the lead on supporting Ukraine and Starmer was leaving his cape in the wardrobe.

we’ve got a fucking great target on our soil in Faslane. It’s target 1 in any nuclear conflict.

The UK does not need to be poking the bear, we should be quietly supporting other countries in Europe, not taking centre stage. We never learn.

cardibach · 01/03/2025 22:15

hairbearbunches · 01/03/2025 22:05

Well, I’d rather other countries in Europe were taking the lead on supporting Ukraine and Starmer was leaving his cape in the wardrobe.

we’ve got a fucking great target on our soil in Faslane. It’s target 1 in any nuclear conflict.

The UK does not need to be poking the bear, we should be quietly supporting other countries in Europe, not taking centre stage. We never learn.

If it gets to nuclear war it makes very little difference. Vocal support now could stop it getting that far by encouraging those unwilling currently to get on with it.

DodoTired · 01/03/2025 22:18

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:25

Did you watch it all? He stayed calm and therefore seemingly came off "better". He wasn't really polite and respectful though. He went in there to sign a peace treaty and then tried to push it too far (when he really isn't in a position to do so) - Trump was correct when he said Z isn't holding the cards and shouldn't act like it.

He overplayed his hand and lost basically.

I agree that T and V looked like aggressive bullish twats the way they both tag-teamed him, but what they were saying was correct.

People are getting far too emotive about this. Use your heads.

he was not there to sign a peace treaty. Peace treaty needs to be with Russia who wasn’t there.
he was to sign the mineral deal. To repay US several times (£500bn)over for the £100bn aid they given (despite the fact that aid was originally provided with no strings attached).

the only reason for him to do this ludicrous deal if the US provided hard guarantees that Putin will not attack again. But US said they wouldn’t.

what is the point for him to sign off the wealth of his nation for literally NOTHING? ZERO guarantees that Putin won’t attack again next year? Remember the war actually started in 2014, there were several peace accords and Russia regrouped and attacked again in 2022.

so there is literally nothing for him to be grateful for to Trump - Trump offered him an absolutely shitty deal

BMW6 · 01/03/2025 22:19

I address this direct to Putin and his supporters.

You can fool some of the people for some of the time, but you will never fool all the people all the time.

All tyrants reigns end. All. What do you want your legacy to be? You are running out of time.

VioletVX · 01/03/2025 22:21

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:25

Did you watch it all? He stayed calm and therefore seemingly came off "better". He wasn't really polite and respectful though. He went in there to sign a peace treaty and then tried to push it too far (when he really isn't in a position to do so) - Trump was correct when he said Z isn't holding the cards and shouldn't act like it.

He overplayed his hand and lost basically.

I agree that T and V looked like aggressive bullish twats the way they both tag-teamed him, but what they were saying was correct.

People are getting far too emotive about this. Use your heads.

He wasn’t there to “sign a peace treaty.” The deal on the table was a treaty giving America control of half of Ukraine’s rare minerals, with a vague promise of possible security guarantees in the future. It was a very bad deal for Ukraine.

Besides, he’s at war with Russia, not America. How could he “sign a peace treaty” without Russia being present?

Do you think through any of these lies before reposting?

SunDash · 01/03/2025 22:23

Sorry whose ego got in the way? 😕
I think there was only 1 ego in the room yesterday. And it belongs to a crazed orange fool.

VioletVX · 01/03/2025 22:25

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:21

I agree with everything in your OP.

What Trump and Vance said was true - but their delivery was extremely unfortunate and made Zelenskyy, who stayed calm, look like a hero.

When Trump said Z was going to start WW3 he was right.

I think the hysteria is a bit like Brexit mark II, those who shout loudest etc - not necessarily what the majority are thinking, but most can't be arsed getting into it and being called "evil bigots" "rape apologists" "thick" etc.

I wonder how many of those spouting unfailing (and never ending) support for Ukraine (70% of who's population want the war to end NOW) will be happy to wave their sons and grandsons off to war?

It's all well and good to want to appear virtuous and be on the "good guys" side - but the reality is giving Ukraine more money and support is just dragging this out even longer and putting our country in a very dangerous position - especially now the US are out.

Why is it Ukraine starting WW3, and not Russia - given that they are the ones who invaded a sovereign state and regularly threaten to nuke the rest of the world into oblivion?

What you are too mind-numbingly stupid to understand is that any so-called “peace deal” will simply be a temporary ceasefire, giving Putin time to rearm before invading again in a few years and taking even more of Ukraine - and beyond that, more of Eastern Europe (countries like Poland, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia which as NATO members we have sworn to protect). That is when WW3 will start.

Any “peace deal” that doesn’t include iron-clad security guarantees for Ukraine will lead to WW3 within 5-10 years.

DodoTired · 01/03/2025 22:25

Why UK needs to care: because we are NATO members and will need to go at war if Russia attacks another NATO member. If Russia succeeds in Ukraine it will absolutely go for Poland and Baltic states which are all NATO members.

so for UK NOT to go to war it has to work with other countries to snare and weaken Russia well ahead of that. That’s why Ukraine took one for the team basically

Viviennemary · 01/03/2025 22:26

America was quick enough to ask for help after 9/11 and got it. I was disgusted by their attitude yesterday.

tinageta · 01/03/2025 22:28

Kissin is a Russian. Born in Moscow. A leopard does not change its spots.

OneLemonDog · 01/03/2025 22:28

Whatever Zelenski said or did, this was the way it'd end up.

Trump supports Putin and has been actively pumping out anti-Zelenski propaganda, like the "dictator" charge.

At best, Kristin's take is very naive.

DodoTired · 01/03/2025 22:29

And this Konstantin Kristin is not an authority on diplomacy or international politics you think he is. Let alone he may be Russian asset