Page 9 | AIBU to not want to go to war

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 22:28

Llttledrummergirl · 01/03/2025 22:06

If you knew history, you would know that appeasement only makes things worse in the long run.
This illegal invasion of Ukraine could stop tomorrow if Putin and Trump had any decency.

Ah, the appeasement argument pulled out like a well-worn security blanket. But let’s be precise, appeasement is giving something in hopes of avoiding conflict. What Trump did wasn’t appeasement it was power brokerage.

He didn’t hand Putin a prize; he signalled that Ukraine would have to work harder to keep U.S. support. That’s not the same as rolling over it’s shifting the terms of engagement.

And as for the idea that this war could "stop tomorrow if Putin and Trump had any decency" well, that’s a lovely thought. But decency has never dictated the course of war. If it did, Ukraine wouldn’t have been invaded in the first place.

Wars end when one side is forced militarily, economically, or politically to accept terms. Not because leaders wake up one day and decide to be better people.

cardibach · 01/03/2025 22:30

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 21:41

For those who beat the war drums, tell me what exactly is the preferred endgame?

Do you truly believe that throwing wave after wave of soldiers into the inferno will suddenly make Putin bow his head?

Unless you’re ready to turn the key and bathe the world in nuclear fire, this war doesn’t end with a glorious charge it ends in exhaustion, in rubble, in a battlefield where victory tastes as bitter as defeat.

Yes, I understand the desire for Ukraine to triumph. Its certainly a righteous cause, But tell me have you ever seen a kingdom rise from ashes?

Or does history teach us that when the dust settles, it’s the vultures who feast?
You may claim victory in the end, but when the cities are smouldering ruins and the streets are paved with ghosts, what exactly have you won?

So I ask you how many of you, sitting in your comfortable homes, would still cheer for war if the price was watching Europe burn?

Did you ask ChatGPT to write a ridiculously emotive justification of Putin’s invasion? Bravo if so.
Incidentally the price of letting Putin take Ukraine is Europe burning.

kungfoofighting · 01/03/2025 22:32

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 21:41

For those who beat the war drums, tell me what exactly is the preferred endgame?

Do you truly believe that throwing wave after wave of soldiers into the inferno will suddenly make Putin bow his head?

Unless you’re ready to turn the key and bathe the world in nuclear fire, this war doesn’t end with a glorious charge it ends in exhaustion, in rubble, in a battlefield where victory tastes as bitter as defeat.

Yes, I understand the desire for Ukraine to triumph. Its certainly a righteous cause, But tell me have you ever seen a kingdom rise from ashes?

Or does history teach us that when the dust settles, it’s the vultures who feast?
You may claim victory in the end, but when the cities are smouldering ruins and the streets are paved with ghosts, what exactly have you won?

So I ask you how many of you, sitting in your comfortable homes, would still cheer for war if the price was watching Europe burn?

Who’s cheering for war?

CassandraWebb · 01/03/2025 22:37

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 21:41

For those who beat the war drums, tell me what exactly is the preferred endgame?

Do you truly believe that throwing wave after wave of soldiers into the inferno will suddenly make Putin bow his head?

Unless you’re ready to turn the key and bathe the world in nuclear fire, this war doesn’t end with a glorious charge it ends in exhaustion, in rubble, in a battlefield where victory tastes as bitter as defeat.

Yes, I understand the desire for Ukraine to triumph. Its certainly a righteous cause, But tell me have you ever seen a kingdom rise from ashes?

Or does history teach us that when the dust settles, it’s the vultures who feast?
You may claim victory in the end, but when the cities are smouldering ruins and the streets are paved with ghosts, what exactly have you won?

So I ask you how many of you, sitting in your comfortable homes, would still cheer for war if the price was watching Europe burn?

Your writing style is quite intriguing.... And bizarrely threatening..

But no, Europeans are not going to bullied by Putin, even now he has his claws in the US

SunDash · 01/03/2025 22:40

Don't want to go to war? It helps noone?
Do you think the people of Ukraine wanted to go to war?

bombastix · 01/03/2025 22:42

Europe has 300 billion of sanctioned Russian assets.

That is probably more than the US. No wonder Russia wants Europe to crack up. They are desperate people.

No pauses. That money needs to be used to support Ukraine.

MrsSkylerWhite · 01/03/2025 22:43

Your writing style is quite intriguing.... And bizarrely threatening..

Quite, Cassandra. One might almost think it wasn’t generated by a human being …..

bombastix · 01/03/2025 22:46

MrsSkylerWhite · 01/03/2025 22:43

Your writing style is quite intriguing.... And bizarrely threatening..

Quite, Cassandra. One might almost think it wasn’t generated by a human being …..

It's AI slop, clearly. ChatGPT is so earnest

Merrymouse · 01/03/2025 22:50

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 22:28

Ah, the appeasement argument pulled out like a well-worn security blanket. But let’s be precise, appeasement is giving something in hopes of avoiding conflict. What Trump did wasn’t appeasement it was power brokerage.

He didn’t hand Putin a prize; he signalled that Ukraine would have to work harder to keep U.S. support. That’s not the same as rolling over it’s shifting the terms of engagement.

And as for the idea that this war could "stop tomorrow if Putin and Trump had any decency" well, that’s a lovely thought. But decency has never dictated the course of war. If it did, Ukraine wouldn’t have been invaded in the first place.

Wars end when one side is forced militarily, economically, or politically to accept terms. Not because leaders wake up one day and decide to be better people.

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No, Trump didn't signal that Ukraine would have to work harder - unless wearing a suit is working harder. Trump made demands with no guarantee of anything in return and when Zelensky pointed out that Putin couldn't be trusted, Vance and Trump lost their tempers.

European leaders should have realised sooner that the days of relying on America were drawing to a close, whoever was in power. However, Trump has gone much further than simply pursuing greater isolationism. He said very clearly "Putin went through a hell of a lot with me". He has chosen a side, and it is Russia.

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 22:53

Merrymouse · 01/03/2025 22:50

No, Trump didn't signal that Ukraine would have to work harder - unless wearing a suit is working harder. Trump made demands with no guarantee of anything in return and when Zelensky pointed out that Putin couldn't be trusted, Vance and Trump lost their tempers.

European leaders should have realised sooner that the days of relying on America were drawing to a close, whoever was in power. However, Trump has gone much further than simply pursuing greater isolationism. He said very clearly "Putin went through a hell of a lot with me". He has chosen a side, and it is Russia.

Show quote history

It’s true that Trump has made no secret of his desire to recalibrate America's global relationships emphasizing America First above all else. But to say he’s “chosen a side” in the context of Russia? When he says, "Putin went through a hell of a lot with me," that’s less about endorsing Putin’s actions and more about positioning himself as the one who could negotiate with Russia.

He’s playing a long game one where the balance of power is tilted in America's favor. You might interpret it as choosing Russia, but Trump is more interested in forcing others, including Russia, to deal with him on his terms. If that looks like an alignment, well, that's the perception game he’s playing.

As for European leaders, you’re right they should have realized earlier that relying on America, regardless of who sits in the Oval Office, was always a flawed strategy.

bombastix · 01/03/2025 22:55

It's a very long game if he wants it in his favour. Or favor

LaurieFairyCake · 01/03/2025 22:58

Only a nutter WANTS to go to war (Putin)

The rest of us are prepared to defend Latvia/Poland/Lithuania/Ukraine because we HAVE TO in order to stop mad bastard Putin trying to reform the USSR by invading everywhere

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 23:02

LaurieFairyCake · 01/03/2025 22:58

Only a nutter WANTS to go to war (Putin)

The rest of us are prepared to defend Latvia/Poland/Lithuania/Ukraine because we HAVE TO in order to stop mad bastard Putin trying to reform the USSR by invading everywhere

Sure, you’re prepared to defend Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine but are you ready for the cost of that defense ? Everything has a price.

Porcuporpoise · 01/03/2025 23:02

Well its cheaper than the alternative honeybunch.

Merrymouse · 01/03/2025 23:10

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 22:53

It’s true that Trump has made no secret of his desire to recalibrate America's global relationships emphasizing America First above all else. But to say he’s “chosen a side” in the context of Russia? When he says, "Putin went through a hell of a lot with me," that’s less about endorsing Putin’s actions and more about positioning himself as the one who could negotiate with Russia.

He’s playing a long game one where the balance of power is tilted in America's favor. You might interpret it as choosing Russia, but Trump is more interested in forcing others, including Russia, to deal with him on his terms. If that looks like an alignment, well, that's the perception game he’s playing.

As for European leaders, you’re right they should have realized earlier that relying on America, regardless of who sits in the Oval Office, was always a flawed strategy.

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"Putin went through a hell of a lot with me," that’s less about endorsing Putin’s actions and more about positioning himself as the one who could negotiate with Russia."

He is talking about Putin being blamed for interfering in the US elections. Whether or not they directly involved Trump, there is no doubt that Russia has interfered with US elections. Trump assumes Putin shares his feelings of anger at the investigation, because he is a narcissist and because he is easily played by Putin.

Trump doesn't have the attention span to play any kind of long game. His political strategy begins and ends at creating a WWE style spectacle.

MrsSkylerWhite · 01/03/2025 23:41

Rosesducks · Today 23:02

LaurieFairyCake · Today 22:58
Only a nutter WANTS to go to war (Putin)
The rest of us are prepared to defend Latvia/Poland/Lithuania/Ukraine because we HAVE TO in order to stop mad bastard Putin trying to reform the USSR by invading everywhere
**
Sure, you’re prepared to defend Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine but are you ready for the cost of that defense ? Everything has a price.

Assuming that you’re not British, by your spelling of defence.

Thing you need to understand is that we British have a strange aversion to dictators invading other nations. Now, why could that be, I wonder 🙄

Rosesducks · 02/03/2025 00:16

MrsSkylerWhite · 01/03/2025 23:41

Rosesducks · Today 23:02

LaurieFairyCake · Today 22:58
Only a nutter WANTS to go to war (Putin)
The rest of us are prepared to defend Latvia/Poland/Lithuania/Ukraine because we HAVE TO in order to stop mad bastard Putin trying to reform the USSR by invading everywhere
**
Sure, you’re prepared to defend Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine but are you ready for the cost of that defense ? Everything has a price.

Assuming that you’re not British, by your spelling of defence.

Thing you need to understand is that we British have a strange aversion to dictators invading other nations. Now, why could that be, I wonder 🙄

indeed, until the war chest expires

kungfoofighting · 02/03/2025 08:30

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 23:02

Sure, you’re prepared to defend Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine but are you ready for the cost of that defense ? Everything has a price.

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I think Europeans would be prepared to sacrifice a lot to prevent incursions further into Europe.

Wildflowers99 · 02/03/2025 08:40

MrsSkylerWhite · 01/03/2025 23:41

Rosesducks · Today 23:02

LaurieFairyCake · Today 22:58
Only a nutter WANTS to go to war (Putin)
The rest of us are prepared to defend Latvia/Poland/Lithuania/Ukraine because we HAVE TO in order to stop mad bastard Putin trying to reform the USSR by invading everywhere
**
Sure, you’re prepared to defend Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine but are you ready for the cost of that defense ? Everything has a price.

Assuming that you’re not British, by your spelling of defence.

Thing you need to understand is that we British have a strange aversion to dictators invading other nations. Now, why could that be, I wonder 🙄

DH has said for years, ‘just because they speak English and dress/eat/act a bit like us, don’t ever be fooled that the Americans think like us as well. They’re still a very different country’. I didn’t really understand that before but now I do.

Wildflowers99 · 02/03/2025 08:41

kungfoofighting · 02/03/2025 08:30

I think Europeans would be prepared to sacrifice a lot to prevent incursions further into Europe.

Show quote history

Yes I agree. We can’t go through WW2 again. I wonder if the fact many of us are of an age that we had grandparents involved makes it feel far more realistic than it does to the Americans.

Bikergran · 02/03/2025 08:42

Lighteningstrikes · 28/02/2025 21:29

Yanbu

Zelensky needs to back down before we have WW3, but he won’t and the UK will back him.

Too many lives have been lost already without the UK adding to the death toll with it’s own personnel for a war that has nothing to do with us.

Zelensky is not in the wrong here. Don't believe the orange maniac.

mitogoshigg · 02/03/2025 08:48

I'm just hoping the American senators, congress and their constitution can step in and pull the USA back from the brink, Trump is dangerous because he really doesn't seem to understand how to run a country, the words and actions have consequences. The Gaza debacle is a case in point - turf out the residents and build a tourist haven, I mean wtf! He has no concept of diplomacy his only concern is to make a deal and make money, though he's easily flattered with a trip to see the king ... not that I suspect that will happen now!

Bikergran · 02/03/2025 08:50

Wildflowers99 · 02/03/2025 08:41

Yes I agree. We can’t go through WW2 again. I wonder if the fact many of us are of an age that we had grandparents involved makes it feel far more realistic than it does to the Americans.

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I am of an age that both my parents were in WW2. I know these stories. My mother's first husband died in 1941, in Sicily, she had a 2-year old to bring up. She lived in a strategically important part of the UK. At one point, after an aerial dogfight between British and German planes, she and others had to run for shelter as the German plane strafed the street with machine gun bullets as he targeted civilians. Nowadays it would be so much worse, with drones and targeted long range missiles. Look at Gaza, look at Ukraine. Yes, I am terrified.

Bikergran · 02/03/2025 08:54

Rosesducks · 01/03/2025 23:02

Sure, you’re prepared to defend Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine but are you ready for the cost of that defense ? Everything has a price.

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Europe has already contributed more to Ukraine than the US has, despite the orange manbaby's lies. The cost if we don't is incalculable. Russia is partly IN Europe, and far too close for comfort. Yes, we are ready for the cost.

luckylavender · 02/03/2025 08:58

TemporaryPosition · 28/02/2025 21:13

It's expensive and it hurts and it helps nothing, it just puts innocent sons, brothers, fathers, uncles and friends through the meat grinder. The only people who benefit are those who make a fortune from selling weapons and are granted contracts for reconstruction.

Haven't we learnt anything? What happened to "never again".

AIBU to really really really not want to be involved in any war?

Body wants to go to war