AIBU to not want to go to war

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It's expensive and it hurts and it helps nothing, it just puts innocent sons, brothers, fathers, uncles and friends through the meat grinder. The only people who benefit are those who make a fortune from selling weapons and are granted contracts for reconstruction.

Haven't we learnt anything? What happened to "never again".

AIBU to really really really not want to be involved in any war?

Again I'll ask

If Putin invaded UK.
How muchbifnit would you hand him in the hopes he'd leave the rest alone?

Just Yorkshire?
Just Scotland?
Just Wales?

How many millions of people are you willing to give to a dictator in the hopes he'd not want more and more and more?

"Never again" meant the things that necessitate war - so "no" to a fragmented Europe and to dictators, meaning war would not be needed.
Not "never again" to war per se.

Out of those 3 I put my money on Yorkshire offering the biggest resistance 😬

They don't even like folks from Lancashire visiting, never mind Putin and his buddies... 🤪🤣

I loved in Yorkshire for a long while, gods country,.. loved it there.

Basildon!

Careful!!! I think the residents are all very fit and healthy and could be quite tricky to beat. When I drove in, everyone was wearing tracksuits.

It's a very unlikely hypothetical. Should we intervene in the current DR conflict lest it arrives on our doorstep? There is absolutely no indication that Russia will be invading the UK. I sincerely believe its virtually zero. The one action we can take to increase that beyond zero is by killing Russians. Which I why I would rather we didn't and kept out of it. Also, many of the Ukrainians in these occupied territories already speak Russian and are culturally closer to Russia, because they WERE Russian. I don't want anymore Ukrainians, Poles, UK citizens, or even Russians to die over this. You can have justice or peace, and sometimes peace is preferable. There is no reason to believe Putin will continue.

Based on what? The Romans gave up on Scotland

Have you ever met a Yorkshireman? The chances of them refusing to surrender out of pure stubbornness are very very very high.

It's not hypothetical to Ukraine....

If Putin keeps what he's illegally taken due to his illegal invasion, you're expecting Zelensky to hand over millions of Ukrainians to a dictatorship and pray Putin doesn't want more.

Russia doesn't have to invade the UK to be a hostile actor.

They have already killed UK citizens on UK soil.

The UK's prosperity depends on relationships with countries that respect rules and sovereignty. If we cannot rely on America (and Trump is going out of his way to demonstrate that we can't), we have no choice but to support our allies in Europe.

With respect to Ukraine - if they really felt so protective over their people there, was it wise to allows NATOs expansion and have troops there while Lavrov warned for years this would be considered a "direct threat" to their sovereignty? Honestly. Were America relaxed about missiles in Cuba?

Ukrainians have killed US citizens on their soil and we've all managed to overlook that. You need to apply consistent standards.

UKs prosperity also relies on lower energy costs.

Ukraine’s independence is an absolutist position. If you believe they are an independent nation, then they should be free to act as one and join whatever treaties they see fit. If you think they should kow tow to Russia every time they want to do anything, then you don’t believe they’re independent and your position is de facto that Russia is their ruler.

If Ukraine joining NATO was the trigger, then they were going to be ‘triggered’ in any event.

Omg these fucking threads 🤦‍♀️

Lavrov warned for years this would be considered a "direct threat" to their sovereignty?
Putin is on record as saying he was totally fine with Ukraine joining NATO in 2002, as an independent nation that can do what it likes. What's changed since then is that he grew more and more authoritarian, murderous, and adventurous.
How many permutations of the same "let's appease Russia" posts, blatantly posting shit, are we going to have to suffer?

Lavrov is just the creep that claims everyone should wash Russia's bloody hands.

It's tempting to imagine he's like some British civil servant. In fact he's extremely wealthy, and wants these sanctions lifted so he can travel the world spreading his poison.

He doesn't need to invade the UK, he just needs to invade a NATO country.

He has expressed an open interest in annexing all or parts of Moldova, Georgia and the Baltic states. There are already Russian speaking enclaves in Moldova.

If he invades a NATO country we are at war with Russia.

Unless you're suggesting we leave NATO? Which would leave us, a tiny country with tiny defences, vulnerable to whichever bigger, stronger country fancies annexing us.

Russia poison people in the UK and create terrorist incidents in middle England. We can't trust them. They already screw with us and it will get worse. We need to face that head on.

The cost of pretending Russia is okay or you can do business with them is too high. You can't trust them, and they are busy undermining democracies.

Many of us had parents who did. Mind you, so do Americans. But it’s a different experience when it’s happening in a different continent.

Ukrainians have killed US citizens on their soil and we've all managed to overlook that. You need to apply consistent standards.

I thought we were talking specifically about Russian threats to the UK? I think it's you that needs more consistency.

UKs prosperity also relies on lower energy costs.

Sounds like a threat. It's true that many countries in Europe, including the UK, are vulnerable because they depend on power supplied by unstable dictatorships. That is a good argument to take every step possible to reduce dependency on unstable dictatorships.

Anyway, Spasibo for the chat.

Oh I don’t know. Wales pretty much bankrupted Edward I and his ring of steel. Ignored the outlawing of the language. Ignored the fact that people married to Welshwomen weren’t allowed to hold public office/jobs (who would care in this case as they would have an awesome wife?).
But the point is good. You can’t just give dictators bits of a country in the hope they’ll be quiet thereafter. One thing we know is that they won’t.

Don’t confuse language with national identity. Lots and lots of Welsh people speak English and no Welsh, but don’t try telling them they are English - or even culturally closer to England.

If large parts of UK coastal areas had been invaded and were being occupied by Russia, would you be saying the same? Devon, Cornwall, Sussex, Norfolk, Northumbria, Aberystwyth, Aberdeen - we'd just turn them all over to an invading dictator, would we?

Agree, @cardibach, Zelenskyy is from the east of Ukraine, and his native language is Russian. I think his comedy show was filmed in the Russian language too.

I wonder if these posts about our children and uncles going to war, are a way of shaping uk opinion ahead of an(other) grave Russian terrorist act. Otherwise, they don't really make sense, they are such an overreaction to a proposed peace-keeping force.
How about Russia leaves Ukraine alone instead? Problem solved.