To think free bus passes for the old should be abolished?

[Bumpitybumper]

Statistics show that on average wealth peaks at age 65-74 in the UK, why then do we give these people free bus passes? It makes absolutely no sense at all and is just an unnecessary expense. The idea that 'young' pensioners are a relatively poor group of people is completely incorrect and it only serves to enhance the already massive intergenerational wealth gap between baby boomers and everyone else.

@Bumpitybumper is just having a laugh now.

Totally agree. It would be political posturing more than anything to means test. I’d actually be in favour of extending free public transport to more people and extending the timetable/routes to help make it more useable for shift workers and funding that with additional general taxation and taxes linked to car ownership. We need a stick and a carrot approach to get more people out of cars and onto public transport, walking and cycling. It might not suit us individually and it might be less convenient but it would be collectively beneficial. Don’t get me wrong if it happened I’m sure I would moan about it like everyone else but it doesn’t change the fact that a lot less cars would be a good thing for congestion & air pollution.

If you're not using it then it's not costing the tax payer anything

The wealthy pensioners around here use their own cars or taxis. The poor ones travel for free on the bus. In my area there's a new free community bus service to enable poor pensioners and others on low wages to get from my village to the nearest town where there are decent shops. Everyone, regardless of their wealth, is being strongly encouraged to use it because if it's only being used by half a dozen people each week it will need to be axed and then the poorest will be hardest hit.

I don't suppose that hordes of wealthy pensioners are abandoning their cars as soon as bus pass age kicks in. Maybe just let everybody else enjoy the tiny morsel of a benefit that comes with getting older, eh?

This also applies to student grants. Grants were only slightly more expensive to the UK than loans.

What's going on is that this is how it starts. This is how the unbelievable and absurd becomes reality. You may not realise it but your post is full of hatred against a particular group, and some of us understand what that kind of hate can lead to.

People who run cars and drive tend not to apply for their bus pass or use it very infrequently. Without older people using the busses services would likely be reduced. Also having a bus pass stops people who have lost confidence trying to drive. It wouldn’t save much to stop free bus passes and it would have unintended consequences.

You can't believe what you are reading??????

Now you know how the majority of us felt when we read your ridiculous post in the first place @Bumpitybumper

So, as others have asked....How old are you @Bumpitybumper

Even when means testing would cost more than not means testing?

Really?

Means testing is expensive. The provision of free bus passes virtually means tests itself.

I should say though I don't mind free bus passes (I also wouldn't mind means testing but that's expensive). I think the more interesting debate is why they can be used during the end of day rush hour. If they are only free in times the buses are empty anyway I don't really care. I'd be interested in an analysis of how often they're being used during peak times though and the impact that has on how full public transport is. They restrict until after 9.30 in the morning but not the other side.

It might be the data shows that there isn't a material impact on the pm rush hour though.

Your arguments make no sense.

If the bus service is so awful then arguably the only people who ever use them are people that have no option irrespective of age. This isn't an argument for why 65-74 year olds should get free travel and other people using the buses shouldn't.

Nobody who is currently using a school (i.e. children) is paying tax towards them. All adults could make the argument that they aren't currently using them and therefore shouldn't pay towards them. It's obviously a crap argument!

DP’s parents are comfortably off, but both feel too old to drive further than the local supermarket these days. But they love a freebie - so they’ll often get on the bus into the centre of town, about 10 miles away, have lunch in a pub, and potter around the shops, buying bits and bobs. They don’t actually need to do this, and it’s probably only because they like the idea of the free bus that they bother to go at all. But in making this trip, they put a fair bit of money back into the economy, supporting local businesses. So I’d say it was a net gain for the community to subsidise their bus trip.

I'm content with my lot. I paid my contributions while working (still do pay a little tax), and receive the full state pension. That's me, I've no complaints but there are elderly who are extremely hard up, struggling with energy costs and the general rise in the cost of living. They need the free bus pass.

This is a really good point, a bus can be a warm place to sit for an hour or so.

My mother, a single parent, never drove, worked in low paid jobs and rented all her life. She used her bus pass every day. She would potter about on the busses, meeting other people. Literally every conversation started with 'So on the bus today......'. She also lived in a county where bus travel was expensive.

To have taken away her bus would have had a serious impact on her life. However if means tested, she most definitely would have qualified - financially, distance to basic amenities, shops, Drs etc. Plus there were no cars in the household.

However a friend's parents both drive cars and despite nearing 70 he has used his bus pass once, first day he got it and she a handful of times. Both would be up in arms if it was discontinued.

All the passes are electronic now. Bus companies can see how many times they are being used by the individual. My mum would have got the bus equivalent of air miles but friends parents definitely don't need them.

In spite of the cost and the fact that it deters many eligible people from claiming?

Agreed. Many elderly will own their home outright because the mortgage was paid off long ago as they bought their house for much less before house prices became massively inflated. It doesn’t mean they are wealthy in physical cash.

I don’t think that many wealthy pensioners use the bus! It should be kept by pensioners as it gives an alternative to driving when their reactions etc slow with age. I think that public transport should be free to Under21s in rural areas too - it’s £6 a day just to get in & out of our nearest town, my kids are lucky that we have the £ but many others don’t and it limits them massively.

Greater Manchester also has free bus travel for 16-18year olds across all boroughs, in addition to free bus route for all around the city centre.

Andy Burnham has also introduced the Bee Network so all buses are under control of GMCA and single ticket costs no more than £2 anywhere.

Perhaps instead of your ageism you should be advocating for improving public transport for all

Not many folk are infirm in their 60s. I think given the changes in society, it makes sense to up the age for free bus passes to at least 70 if not 75.

add...I assume has paid his taxes for 30+ years and has contributed to the welfare state for people on low/no incomes to be able to get free bus passes.

'These people'?

FFS.

Stop trying to demonise elderly people or to suggest that every pensioner is a millionaire.

It should be means tested. My ex can get a free pass yet he’s still working and on a very good six figure salary and drives a fancy merc.

The rich don’t generally use buses so it costs no more to give universal free bus passes based on age rather than solely for those who need them and I would hope you wouldn’t suggest that poorer pensioners should have their bus passes removed?
I would have been quite in agreement with the winter fuel allowance having an income threshold as there were certainly many wealthy pensioners receiving an unneeded payment but bus passes are not the same at all.

Yes they do need to do that rather than sit at home. My parents were out for coffee and shopping into their late 80s and they looked all the better for it.