To think free bus passes for the old should be abolished?

[Bumpitybumper]

Statistics show that on average wealth peaks at age 65-74 in the UK, why then do we give these people free bus passes? It makes absolutely no sense at all and is just an unnecessary expense. The idea that 'young' pensioners are a relatively poor group of people is completely incorrect and it only serves to enhance the already massive intergenerational wealth gap between baby boomers and everyone else.

I'm not sure. My mum relies on her bus pass.

My in laws are extremely well off. Massive detached house all paid off years ago. Investment properties. Nice cars on the drive. Huge motor home.

Mil uses her free bus pass because she doesn't like driving which is fair enough.

But my 16yo can't have a free bus pass to get to school and we struggle despite both working our arses off. Doesn't seem very fair somehow.

I think there's benefits as PP have said - allowing older people who are less confident driving to keep some independence, keeping bus routes running that would not be viable otherwise.

I also would support those on benefits/education who need free or subsidised transport to get a bus pass. It actually seems like a sensible use of money if it enables people to get to education or allow someone a wider search area to get a better job if they can't afford to run a car or can't drive.

Fair enough. You do you and see how you go in old age.

Do you think free education is ageist? They only give that to 4-18yr olds.

I don’t begrudge it, but I do wish they would give free travel to other groups like uni students. I know students having to pay hundreds a year on train and bus fayres to get to uni and unpaid full time placements. We can afford to help our kids out a lot but some of my children’s friends are really struggling.

The argument that "only people who can't afford to use a car use the bus" could also hold up for literally anyone who uses a bus. People are effectively arguing for universally free public transport here (great) then arguing it should be age limited to only one group for no clear reason (not great). There's no reason why there should be an age limit on it except that we can't afford to give it out for free.

Let them have their bus passes. Without it they wouldn't be encouraged to take public transport over keeping themselves on the road for longer. If getting free buses is that tiny extra incentive that pushes them into accepting that they can give up the car then I'll happily pay taxes for that. If we want to save money why don't we scrap highly paid politicians travel expenses?
Having seen some horrifying elderly driving in my life I'm happy the buses are free. There are terrible drivers of all demographics but if we can reduce one, all the better.

I'm not saying we means test the free bus pass. My argument is that that poor people up and down the country would benefit from getting out and about how you describe. Nothing magically happens at 65 that means this group should automatically qualify for a bus pass which are ultimately subsidised by younger people. These young people are statistically far less wealthy than those over 65 and don't qualify for the bus pass.

In Scotland all under 22s get free bus travel. Based solely on their age. Including children with millionaire parents. Can you explain why your opinion isn't ageism solely against older people?

You get a completely free pass on ageism against younger people though. It's absolutely rife in the UK. You can even pay a younger person less money for doing the exact same job, side by side with an older person.

My mum was pretty well off and the only benefit she would have cared about losing was her bus pass.

Loneliness among the elderly is a big societal issue.

But most students are funded by the tax payer already, millions of pounds year. Very few students don’t take student loans. Quite a few have planned to never pay them off. Just one example.

What?? No they don't. It's to do with level of education not age of student. Go and look it up. If you didn't have GCSE Maths or English you could do L2 qualifications in these subjects for free at any age.

Not only pensioners get freedom passes, so do people that have certain disabilities etc.

Police officers get free buses too - they're supposedly fit and employed and they can afford travel.

Just curious as to why it bothers you? Does it inconvenience you that different people pay different rates to get on the bus?

I agree with you and both DH and I are in our 60s.

Mind you we rarely take the bus anyway. We have a car and for relatively short distances, e.g. a mile in to the town centre, we can easily walk. We do have a Senior Rail Card but you have to buy those. And actually there are so many different sorts of railcards available that this is not an exclusively old person privilege.

I get the argument about older drivers but that maybe isn't as relevant until people are in their 70s or more.

TBH I think public transport is so sketchy in most of the country outside of big cities that bus passes aren't much of a perk.

YABU. My mum is mid-70s, no longer confident driving, doesn't qualify for a state pension and lives off my dad's (less than 30k/year) earnings, who will probably work until he drops dead to try and make ends meet. They've never owned their own home and at times have only had a roof over their heads because they've couch surfed or housesat.
Without a bus pass, she would be trapped at home with no interaction other than my dad, except when I or DSis drops by. With it, she can do her shopping, have a chat with kind strangers people she meets in town, go to church, get to the GP, go to the old lady's tea and cake group at the library... it literally gives her life purpose.

The justification is that:

a) net wealth does not equate to available disposable income so that argument is redundant; and more importantly,
b) it encourages use of public transport over driving, which due to their age puts others lives at risk.

There is no argument for giving the average 30-something access to free transport. But this post reeks of “I can’t have it so I don’t want them to have it either”, when it’s in place for public protection.

No, because that is front loaded so we all get an education at the start of our lives and there is an obvious justification why you would organise the system this way of we want people to have long careers in skilled jobs.

Again I ask, why give free bus passes to those who are 65-74?

Could you go to the local school like the children? No? Ageist

Don’t be stupid.

1. Means testing is expensive and will cost vastly more than handing out bus passes to pensioners currently does.

2. We want fewer people with declining eyesight and slower response times on the road. My neighbour, at 84 and with the eyesight of a cave fish, didn’t have his car taken away until he crashed into someone else in broad daylight. Free bus transportation is far better for society than driving with poor vision.

3. Most of that wealth isn’t actual wealth, it’s theoretical, tied up in the equity of homes where the mortgage is paid off. You can’t chip a couple of bricks off and pay a taxi with it.

4. Those pensioners who are wealthy aren’t the ones on the after-9:30am bus to the market.

Surely the vast majority of these pensioners with plenty of money and several cars are not using the bus anyway?

I think the cost of giving people a bus pass they do not use is probably far cheaper than setting up a whole administration to try and do some sort of means testing. It's self tested.

I'm in Scotland where under 22s get a bus pass and tbh it has its drawbacks

I sometimes feel a little uncomfortable about this but I think it's about the bigger picture. There are societal benefits to getting older people out of their cars and onto public transport while they are still young enough to make the transition and before they have to give up their cars due to failing health/cognitive ability.
My mother in law in Australia is in her mid mid 90s and still driving, as are all her friends, and frankly, she is terrifying. We need to get people out of cars as they get older.
Secondly, there are poorer older people and the dangers of social isolation are real. If free public transport gets people outside, moving, and mixing with others then that is a cost saving to the NHS in the long term.

How about a few perks from working for, sometimes 50 years, like free prescriptions and free buses.

Wages?

I reckon it would cost a lot more in taxpayer money to build a department that assesses the eligibility criteria of which pensioner qualifies for free travel based on their income and assets than it is to just blanket issue them to everyone over a certain age.

So why not make public transport free (or very cheap) for everyone? Many European cities and countries already do this - in Vienna or Salzburg an annual pass costs €365. This summer, tourists in Salzburgerland can travel on all public transport free of charge. All public transport in Luxembourg has been free since 2020.

The idea is to encourage people to leave their cars behind - thus saving councils money on road maintenence, reducing the need for car parks and parking spaces, reducing pollution and congestion.

Of course net wealth is relevant as you can ultimately release money if you need it even if it is tied up in assets. Those with no net wealth can't do this. 65-74 year olds are generally medically fit to drive. Very few pose a danger to the public through driving.