To think free bus passes for the old should be abolished?

[Bumpitybumper]

Statistics show that on average wealth peaks at age 65-74 in the UK, why then do we give these people free bus passes? It makes absolutely no sense at all and is just an unnecessary expense. The idea that 'young' pensioners are a relatively poor group of people is completely incorrect and it only serves to enhance the already massive intergenerational wealth gap between baby boomers and everyone else.

In relation to the overall budget of Scotland over that time, that's a tiny amount of money given the benefits of providing free public transport.

Absolute bargain.

But then the bureaucracy required to do that often outweighs the cost of it being available for all. Lots of people won’t apply for them if they have cars or don’t use buses anyway. I can’t imagine there are streams of millionaire pensioners in Chelsea falling over themselves to get on the number 57 for free.

I've not read the full thread but I have read OP's posts.

I'm a longtime widow in my early 70s and I own my own home. I have savings but I'm nowhere near wealthy. I'm on a low income which is just above the tax threshold so I am contributing to society with income tax.

I don't own a car. I live a very lonely life and have mental health issues partly due to this. My bus pass is my life line. It not only enables me to be independent and do all my own shopping but also allows me to get out and about on a daily basis. The alternative is being by myself alone at home.

And that's the thing about free travel for the elderly: the social benefits are immense. They allow independence and enrich the sometimes difficult and challenging experience of older age.

Many older people entitled to the bus pass don't bother even applying for one, or, if they do have one don't use it. Because they just don't use buses.

Here in Scotland young people up to age, I think, 22 also get free bus travel. Perhaps OP should direct her nasty ageist anger at them as well.

Depends where you live. Here driving into the city is discouraged. I work for the uni, most sites and campuses all over the city have car parks for staff, but no one living reasonably near would be allowed a parking permit except for those with special circumstances or disability. They get reviewed/reallocated every year. One colleague lives 10 miles out, but is on the uni subsidised bus route. Lost his permit

Or wages could be sufficient to be able to live on that no one needs freebies and benefits!

Forgive me if I'm wrong but don't the free bus passes have to be applied for? So anyone wanting one surely applies and uses it because they want/need to? In this case the example of older people with fancy cars or loads of money probably just wouldn't apply for one and therefore not cost any money?

How would means testing work? As has been said upthread many people may be asset rich but cash poor.

Generally when it comes to looking at means testing something that has previously been universal there is a great cost which I don't imagine would be offset by the savings on the few people that use busses regularly that may now pay. In all fairness I'd think that many would opt out of using the busses which would lead to less routes/frequency.

Also anything that potentially gets drivers off the road that shouldn't be driving can't be a bad thing (I'm by no means saying all older drivers are a hazard). My MIL has recently stopped driving after realising that she isn't comfortable and may become a hazard to other drivers. She can afford to run a car and logically can therefor afford to pay for busses but she's paid taxes all her life so why shouldn't she get this small gesture. She's fortunate to live 2 minutes from a main road with busses that take her to two cities (1 in 15 minutes, the other in about 70 minutes) along with easy access to many smaller towns. I love rurally so we can't use the very very limited service but when my kids visit Grandma they love their bus adventures and I feel much better knowing they are more safe on the bus than in her car.

It also has the knock effect of getting people back into town/city centres spending money.

With Dmum living in village - her neigbour and couple further down have all started using free after 9 bus service and taxi for odd journey then that's got them thinking possible or actaully giving up cars entirely.

Like PP IL who never drive go out and spend more because they don't have to factor in bus costs.

So I think it a subtle nudge to adjust behavior that keeps elderly more active and healthier longer and slowly suggest to them as they age that perhaps they could give up the car and gets deteriating driver off the roads making them safer for everyone.

Dirt cheap reliable public transport for everyone could have a similar effect I suppose - but lets be honest poltcially that harder to do than set age.

Also with older family finding mean testing when they have to give all financial data to various agencies is very off putting to older people -- it's not always clear how many people have access to this information and when they often worry about failing for scam is an active deterrrant to claiming.

In 2022/23 16% of pensioners were in relative poverty, 8% in material deprivation poverty (unable to afford essential living costs) including 5% who couldn't afford to keep their homes warm.

Your shit posting is saying that 16% of poor pensioners aged 65-74 shouldn't even have a free bus pass because other pensioners are rich.

so is he going to apply for a bus pass? what is the chance of that? just to spite all the ageist shitposters he's going to sit on a bus rather than drive his fancy merc?

Why is it ageism? Most benefits are means tested, why would it be immoral to means test this one?

Adding that my recent tax bill was the equivalent of the average wage so you know, if I were to apply for my free bus pass (I’m eligible) , I think I’ve earned it and I’m paying for your children’s education @Bumpitybumper But I’m still earning so I pay my way.

Honestly, I really wish MN would do something about the ageist bigotry on here. Substitute “black” for “old” or pensioner” and see how it feels.

My father is not rich at all, every penny is accounted for and he doesn't own his own home. He can no longer drive due to declining sight. He worked since he was 14 years old. He uses his bus pass to get to all of his health appointments (which unfortunately are many), it's his only personal means of travel and freedom for the odd time he can go on a longer day trip. You've made a huge generalisation about how wealthy this age group are, most of the pensioners I know are in the same boat but I am not from a wealthy area but a working class (former) industrial town.

He would rightly be devastated to lose it, which would also cause him financial strain. He paid into this system his entire life and deserves his bus pass. It makes his life easier and gives him say over his days/plans.

Maybe it should be means tested but it shouldn't be abolished.

The bus pass is also a useful bit of ID if your passport is out of date as my late father discovered

Yes that's how it works.

It's also worth remembering that bus services don't tend to be profitable to run without subsidy. So if the taxpayer weren't paying the bus companies via the cost of reimbursing them for trips made by people with a free bus pass, we'd either end up paying via general subsidy to the bus companies or through higher bus fares. It's not as though if you removed free bus travel from older people the taxpayer would magically "save" all that money.

I think it's also worth exploring the chain effect that could happen if free bus passes were taken away from pensioners.

Those who rely on public transport but have to tighten their belts could choose not to spend money on their fare and miss a check up appointment, not go into town to socialise, not go for a little sightseeing as they would prefer to save that money, even though in theory they can afford it. this would inevitably lead to more loneliness or illnesses that haven't been detected early enough which would then put even more strain on the likes of social services and the NHS and local councils. So all evens are in the end.

@Pleasesaveme I imagine many others are in the same boat as you. I perhaps should have included situations similar to yours in my post (but it was getting a bit long!)

those numbers are meaningless without knowing what the whole budget is. Or what % of the overall budget that represents.

No one is issued them when they hit a certain age. They have to specifically apply for them.
What proportion of pensioners actually have a bus pass? And how many get regularly used? I they are the figures you should be looking at if you want to support your argument.
But if it is just screaming ageism, then why not get up in arms about age restrictions on other other things such as driving licenses, drinking, joining the army, getting married etc.

Scotland also gives free bus travel to everyone under the age of 25

I didn't realise you had to apply, i thought they just handed them out 😂

Then, yes, not sure its an issue, my dad gets about £5k a month private plus his state and plus mums private and her state - they definitely don't need a bus pass, but then they never venture passed the village unless its to the supermarket

Exactly. I hate catching a bus, all that waiting around not knowing if it's held up. I will drive for as long as possible after retirement age, as I expect the majority of pensioners do.

Has anyone told op about free prescriptions? Hope not, I want a front seat watching her spontaneously combust.

No I don't agree with this policy. I suspect they don't actually use public transport much. Also I want a free bus pass and prescription if I need it when I am old.

Mum used the bus a lot she used to say she’d be quite happy paying some rather than free , at the time she used to say 50p a trip,though full price fares when she used it would have meant she went out far less if at all

Because the "poorer" pensioners need them, and the "wealthier" pensioners have paid a sh*t load of tax in their lifetime, subsidising a significant percentage of the population. Why not let them have a small perk? And the cost of means testing would be self-defeating.