First dates... splitting the bill.

[NovemberMorn]

Is it unreasonable to expect the male to pay the full bill on a first date dining out?
I watch the programme 'First Dates' on TV, and it amazes me how, in this day and age, so many women either don't offer to split the food bill, or mutter something half-heartedly as the man gets his cc out, obviously not expecting to pay a penny.

I think in the past men were more worried about feeling emasculated than they are now so that is again a good thing.

No you haven’t. You have not explained why somebody normal would be confused by different people being different.

Why do you expect all women to be exactly the same?

Do you equally expect all men to be exactly the same?

So you don’t view women as human?

You may not intend to bit you are coming across like an incel who hates women.

Or at the very least does not see us as human.

If you are confused by different people being different that is a problem for you to work through with a therapist. It’s not women’s problem to deal with because there is no problem.

Agreed - I think everything is just personal preference.

I don’t see any need to denigrate anybody for not meeting your personal preference. Just find somebody compatible and everybody is happy!

Even the term “emasculated” is so problematic. The more we move away from that the better!

Yes, I agree but I know/knew so many men of my age, that as they were mostly educated would say it ironically but you always felt there was a touch of truth.

I remember my late father...when we were kids in the 1980s we would go out to restaurants with our relatives and family friends...I remember the men in the familiy would argue endlessly over who would pay the bill...I'll pay, no I'll pay...over and over again. It was a pride thing.

@JHound I totally agree; I really dislike the opinion that "men should be men" in exactly the same way as I do "women should be women."
When my friends in the past have asked how I knew my husband was "The One"...
One morning he'd been for a walk and came in absolutely sobbing his heart out. His ex-wife (all amicable) had called him to tell him that their cat had died after being hit by a car.
That was the moment.
He's is far from the "Alpha Male" and that is one of the many things I love about him ❤️

Also, I would argue that it wasn't a considered thing, like you see today so these awful Trad movements, especially in the US where all these rules exist around the meaning of paying the bill and how this rules out men. It seems to go hand in hand with these Trad movements whereas my DH definitely isn't, wasn't traditional, he just paid (mostly at first) but there wasn't any expectations around that on me as a woman.

Yes, I totally get that.

Not me personally (getting mat pay) as im child free by choice and this is one of the reasons why. Because of attitudes like this.
A baby is not an Immaculate Conception

Chuckling away at the PP trying to make this a class issue. So Mumsnet! So British! And, of course, so very middle class!

A sweeping generalization based on your circle's experience - and very different to my own circle's or, it seems, that of other wealthy professionals on this thread. I'm just not sure it's a class or wealth thing.

But it makes a man look awkward when a bill is being split which consequently makes him look weak...most women couldn't care less if they get a free plate of lasagne or not. They care about what it represents. And you talk of equality...when a man is alone in a room for the first time with a woman he's dating, does he need to worry about his own physical safety, does he need to hope she won't rape and murder him? Does he need to worry that he'll get pregnant and she'll fuck off leaving him to have an abortion or raise a child alone. Dating will never be an equal playing field.

Worrying about being raped or murdered on a first date is hysterical. And since the invention of contraception, women have greater control over whether or not they get pregnant on a date. None of these "risks" are why a man should pay on a first date, you've gone off on a ludicrous tangent.

To me, I view a man paying on a first date as good manners. It's as simple as that.

Glad you find it funny. Many women probably never made it to the date or made it safely back home thanks to John Warboys

I really want a woman to turn up with a skirt on with unshaven legs on First Dates Lets see if her date REALLY believes in feminism or just the part that suits him financially.
Lets see if their Twitter fans follow through on their beliefs too

The worst was the woman who made snide remarks about the man's finances throughout and still expected him to pick up the tab. When he did, she "joked" that his kids would be eating beans on toast for a week.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/3835440-First-dates-guy-with-10-DC-paying-the-bill?page=1

10 kids? He wouldnt have got past the first drink with me.

I got asked to be on First Dates once by a producer (many years ago now). Have only watched it a few times, but it was a hard and instant no from me.

All my dating foibles exposed to the Great British Public! And to my family and colleagues and other people I hope to impress with something other than my insistence on splitting the bill, my complete lack of poker face (I have very expressive eyebrows) and my inability to quietly tolerate a boring and/or self-involved man.

That's fair enough @JenniferBooth. You wouldn't have spent time putting him down then expecting him to pay for your scran.

I like watching it, appearing on it would be a different matter.
Good for you for turning that dubious opportunity down.

no of course not. And if i just leave he can look for someone more compatible
Im child free by choice so i wouldnt be.

I remember that episode, she was horrendous.

It's one of the few reality shows (alongside Strictly) that I have enjoyed watching.

I think appearing on any reality TV show (barring Strictly!) would probably be a hard no - I hate to think how my personality would be edited (!)

And if you earned substantially more...?

It's definitely only proper for a man to pay for both of you on a first date - probably every date, really.

It's because of proper things like this that men obviously need to earn far more than women - and why it doesn't matter if a woman is paid pin money for doing the same job as a man who is paid a whacking decent wage for it, so he can take care of both of them financially. Yes, he holds the purse strings; but she only needs to ask him nicely and flutter her eyelashes if she wants something.

Men need the money, as they're the ones who should pay for everything. Of course, it's nice for a woman who works hard to be given a few quid for her trouble, so she can pop into town and buy herself a new lipstick, a pretty doily or something else that will really bring her true happiness and a sense of self-worth; but I think it's clear as day why men are the ones who really must be paid the serious money for their work.

Oh, wait...........