Mother is barely speaking to me wwyd?

[Biscuitsnotcookies]

NC to start this thread.

Background: I grew up as a black sheep in a sometimes very violent but always psychologically damaging household. My father did not want children, and lashed out at me frequently and violently, and said he hated us regularly. I don’t have a single memory of him hugging or smiling at me, or feeling anything but anger towards me. He just openly counted down to the day he could throw me out. I was on my own at the age of 16.

To this day he is not interested in either my brother or me. My brother was the golden child, so my mother shielded him from much of the violence, she did not do the same for me. As a result I have scars both inside and out.

My parents are still together, although I believe it is a mutually coercive and manipulative relationship. Almost transactional, I was only ever happy anywhere away from home as a child and spent most of my life outside. I learnt to make the best of things and lie low.

Fast forward to now. I have a family of my own, and we live around 3 hours from my parents.

When I had children of my own I realised how awful my own childhood was, and I moved away to provide a calm and happy childhood for my dc.

My mother took it very, very badly and has felt deep resentment ever since, saying I took her ‘grandchildren away from her’. Despite accepting it was a better life for them. In all honesty I wanted to keep them away from my toxic family as far as possible. Although initially we visited every three weeks, and I called my mother every day.

We had to stop seeing my father when he started to abuse my own children by calling them names and degrading them.

My mother felt I should tolerate him, for her sake, but I can’t as I fear he will make my dc anorexic (I am a recovered, as far as possible, anorexic myself, thanks to him) and ruin their self esteem at best. He has a nasty temper, and can blow up at the smallest thing. My dc haven’t seen him in over five years.

Up to a year ago we just saw my mother alone, and tired to continue a relationship of sorts. Last year she became quite abusive towards me, calling me names, blaming me for the family’s problems and always trying to make me feel I am not good enough/not doing enough.
She is angry I won’t play happy families and allow my father near my dc. It comes out in a million PA ways. She never stops reminding me of what I have done.

For the sake of keeping some relationship with her, i have tried to keep things light mostly, but I told her she has hurt me with the things she has said, and the name calling. She then proceeded to cut me off for six months, and stopped talking to me.altogether.

She did this before for nearly a year, she has form for giving me extended periods of silent treatment. This hurts me, as I feel abandoned and hurt, even though I am adult now. It makes me feel terrible. It’s my punishment it feels like.

Just before Christmas she got back in touch, as if nothing had happened. Expected me to visit her, bring presents and play along.

I felt too afraid to really challenge her as she just cuts me off the minute I say I am upset/hurt. So we haven’t discussed any of this in any detail, I am expected to gloss over it, she is pretending like nothing has happened, chatting about the weather and sending me gushing messages that she misses me and loves me more than life itself. It all feels very hollow.

I just feel so confused. She says she has a ‘phone phobia’ but I know that isn’t true as she speaks to her sister every single day. She also calls my brother. She just never calls me. Ever. She just refuses to engage properly, and just sends texts only talking mainly about the weather or her undying love for me.

I don’t know how to manage this relationship anymore.

It feels empty and pointless, superficial in many respects, but somehow I feel I must continue to make some effort with her as she is my mother, and is getting older. I feel so sad we have no real relationship. It just feels so upsetting and empty that it has come to this.

Mother’s Day is coming, and I’m already having sleepless nights about what to do.

I have panic attacks at the thought of driving to see her now or bumping into my father again. I don’t know what I would even say to her now.

What would you do in my place?

@Biscuitsnotcookies
February 2025 Well we took you to Stately Homes www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/5272966-february-2025-well-we-took-you-to-stately-homes

Long standing thread. Please have a look.
AIBU may get a bit harsh perhaps ask to move this thread to relationships.

That makes complete sense, OP.

And I know it's easy for us to say just to go no contact but I appreciate it's not as easy as that sometimes.

While you work through things, remember that accepting how they are doesn't mean they're right.

As a child, you deserved much, much better - they've installed some pretty awful core beliefs in yourself which is keeping you tied to them, so I think if you work on those, you'll know exactly what you need to do.

Good luck.

"I don’t know how to manage this relationship anymore."

Then maybe it's time to stop trying?

Perhaps you could reframe the situation a bit? Just because someone is related to you by blood it doesn't give them licence to treat you like trash.

IMO having no family is better than having a toxic family. I've had more support from friends that I ever got from family.

If your mother won't speak to you that's her choice. If she chooses to "badmouth" you, that's also her choice.
You also have a choice and that's not to be dragged into a toxic drama that isn't of your making.

I'm sorry you're in this situation, it's not a good place to be - I know because I've been there.

I think given what she has done ready she has almost certainly done this.

OP, your mother is appalling. Keep your DC well away from her. If I were you, I’d take the view that she’s died. My DM died when I was 21 so I don’t say that lightly. As a parent yourself who wants to care properly for your children, you must see that she is not a good person for them to be near. Frame it like that - this is to protect your own children - they come first, not her.

Underneath it all, you reject your mother’s blame. It might help to explicitly say that. “I reject her attempts to blame me for her trashed relationship with her grandchildren. It is a natural consequence of the way she behaves. I think my children have wisely seen that she should be avoided.”

Only someone who is nuts would behave like you have described and expect to continue it with someone else’s children (presumably only you are subject to this).

She seems ok with giving it, but can she take it. Have you ever given her a dose of her own medicine. She made her children live with an absolute animal, and regardless of anything she thinks, you think that makes her a terrible mother and a terrible person. If you can, I’d (verbally) give the pair of them both barrels.

I think you need to accept that a working relationship with your mother isn’t possible. In her own, but slightly different way, she is as broken as your father.

Definitely get therapy. Not nhs - private you pick the person who is trauma informed and whom you feel you can work with long term. This is not going to be s quick fix and you need someone to help you through.

you are struggling with loss . Even though you know how bad your family are - deep down even though you know they just hurt you - you want them to love and care for you so it really really hurts when they don’t.

your previous therapist is right - it is about acceptance and that’s not victim blaming. it’s about accepting the reality of what you have (toxic parents) and grieving too for the idealised family that you deserved but never had. It is not your fault but it is your reality.
they are highly unlikely to change - but you can as you have insight and strength.

you fear being alone if you don’t have them because the little girl in you desperately wants a loving caring responsive compassionate mum - which yours is not able to be. you have a huge amount to grieve but you can will get through this as YOU take control and set the boundaries that you are comfortable with.

you sound awesome - you have protected your own kids from this toxicity despite all the blackmailing comments from your family and heaps of guilt and blame they have tried to impose on you. They can dish it out - but you can choose not to accept it as you know the truth . Even your own teenagers see through them and can see them for what they are.

it is so hard as the parent / child dynamic is so strong. All your life you have been wanting and waiting for their love - but it has only ever been given with conditions and huge amounts of damage. It is about control snd they have abused you and not been the living kind parents that every child deserves.

get a good therapist to help you through these issues. Focus on the beautiful family and friends you have now.

this abuse has occurred over many years and it will take time to grieve and heal but you can do it. As much as they try and put doubt in your head - you KNOW the truth and know their narrative is not true…

you can be free from them both in person and in your head but it will take a lot of work and therapy but you can and will come out of this stronger.

take care

This is so sad and upsetting to read. The abuse you have suffered is still ongoing. You are the scapegoat of the family for their toxic behaviour.

You need to cut them out of your life and concentrate on your small family. Your extended family brings nothing to you apart from pain. As long as you stay in contact with them, then none of them have to look at their own behaviour.
All of them have bullied you and not protected you and are continuing to do so. It’s time to save enough and cut them off.

If someone was doing this behaviour to your children would you let it continue?

Don’t let fear determine how you treat yourself. You deserve to give yourself unconditional love.

Here is the problem-

you believe family have your back and support each other lovingly. Therefore it’s good to have family.
you believe mums are special and love their dc just as you love yours.

But- yours isn’t. Yours is dysfunctional. It literally doesn’t work, it’s broken.

When you accept that, you get to choose what to do. Personally, I choose to play along. All I have to do is go through the motions, fulfil her expectation of what ‘having a daughter’ looks like. She wants cards on the mantelpiece, a regular visit and someone to talk at for hours on a weekly basis or when she’s got a panic on.

You can choose to walk away and have nothing to do with them, or you can play along, do the minimum you need to, to be invited to family events, stay in touch with the less toxic ones. But know this- you are just as alone with them as you are without them. They do not have your back. They won’t step up when needed- unless it looks good and costs them nothing.

What you can do in the meantime is make up for that- love the little you in ways your family didn’t bother to. Treat yourself, cherish yourself, pay attention to your own needs and wants. Do exaggerated self care, get your DH to help if he can. Ask him to cradle you and hold you. Start filling the gap where a loving parent should be.

I'm sorry you're hurting and that you got stuck with such shite parents.

I agree with others that returning to counseling is a good idea. And I think your past therapist was right about acceptance, though it sounds like perhaps they didn't explain what they meant by acceptance well. Here's what it took me a very long time to truly understand about acceptance, families of origin and therapy:

Your parents aren't like this because of you and nothing you do will fix them. You can't go to therapy for your parents and you can't find the perfect way to behave or communicate that will make them more kind or less fucked up. This has been true for your entire life - their behavior is not your fault and not in your control. That absolutely sucks, because you desperately want a family that doesn't constantly hurt you and if you could do the work or or will that into existence you would. And it's hard to get the hurt, terrified child inside you to truly accept because your parents have worked hard your entire life to make their abuse your fault rather than theirs. That was always a lie, but it was told to you so many times in so many ways that it became a core truth to a child who didn't have any way to know better. And you spent years believing that the only form of acceptance available was tolerance of their abuse because as a child you didn't have another choice - you had to depend on and just try to survive these people who continually hurt and neglected you.

You going to therapy won't fix your parents. But you can work on chipping away at that lie that their abuse is something you either have to somehow (impossibly) fix or tolerate. You can accept and grieve that you drew a fucking shite hand when it came to parents, can come to truly believe that they alone have always been and always will be responsible for their behavior, and can work on what you're going to choose to do to look after yourself and what you will or won't accept in your life and the life of your DC.

I understand the vulnerability part of not having family. My parents are dead, sister has MH issues and brother has gone NC over money . He too has said negative things about me in an effort to get people to exonerate him. And yet in some way I feel like a bad person if you have a NC situation. Worst part is that we used to be very close .
But your parents didn't seem to ever have given you the love and attention you deserved especially as a child . The physical abuse and your mother condoning it would be reason enough to go NC .They don't bring anything to you even now except stress and anxiety . No need to have a dramatic announcement. Just avoid and ignore and maybe your mother will work it out . If not then rather than in the heat of an argument just quietly tell her and then completely block all communication.

I'm so so sorry your parents have treated you like this, it's heart breaking. Personally, I think you should take back control and go no contact. Your mum brings nothing to your life except pain and hurt and abuse. I'd also look at getting therapy if you don't have any ongoing. You deserve to heal from the pain and not be treated like this any longer.

I feel incredibly sad for you OP. I understand your reluctance to have no family at all, I think. Well, I know how it makes me feel and that is similar to what you have said. When I feel sad about it, I realise what I am sad about is them not being who I wish they were and I know without any doubt they never will be. But even when I do feel sad it is nowhere near as bad as how I felt when they were in my life. They are never going to change despite your mother seeming to have a change of heart. You said it feels hollow and it almost certainly is. Maybe something has changed, a health scare perhaps, and she has realised that if it is possible she might need help from her children in the future it is likely to only come from you. Golden children are often far too busy for aging parents.

Maybe your aunt will stay in touch if you went NC even if that has to be a secret. Not ideal and rather offensive, but maybe that would be better than nothing.

I think when your counsellor was encouraging you to find acceptance they may have meant that acceptance is better than forever hoping you might have the relationship you want with your family, even hoping for something better than you have ever had so far. It is the hope that stops us from moving on. Accepting they are who they are won't bring you happiness as such, but it will give you some peace from the "if onlys" and allow you to finally ensure they do no further damage.

You will be better off with no family rather than this bunch of cunts.

You are not alone. You have your DH, your kids sound savvy and brilliant, you have friends. Moreover you have not been able to rely on family, so you know you are capable. The only thing missing is to remove yourself completely from this abuse. You can do it.

I had a very complicated relationship with my mother and my father was very passive in it. They have both now passed- my mother in the middle of me doing active therapy work to try and come to terms with it. (I’m still working to try and get over some of the results of their behaviour during my childhood and adolescence.)

I sometimes have a sense of spinning in empty space, with no tethers to the ground- but in fact I have been my own tether, they never really provided that. Looking back they didn’t look after me, even though there was a lot of love there. I have also encountered moments of real freedom and discovered that a lot of things I ‘just did’ were my mother’s ‘things’ and not mine at all.

I suppose I’m trying to say that if you go NC it isn’t the end of your world. You might need to do some work with it but you may find real freedom there without them looming over your life in this way.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Please seek good therapy. I'd suggest looking up a psychotherapist or person centred counselling (BACP approved). Good therapy is expensive but you owe it to your family and self. I know the thought of having no family is scary but with therapy you can process everything and find the best way forward. It sounds like you're your mother's emotional punching bag/scapegoat - she probably needs therapy and to leave your father but you can't control what she does so you need to let go. Good luck.

You can mother yourself by mothering your self.

I knew before you even said it that she wasn't allowed to be seen talking to you on the phone.

OP she's an abuser. She puts your needs to the bottom of every pile. I honestly think you'll feel far more relief than sadness at no longer speaking to her. Even your DC can see that and won't bother with her.

Thank you for all of these beautiful messages. I am in tears reading them, both those that suffer similar family environments, and those that understand how hard it is to recover from abuse. The psychological pain is far, far worse than any beating and injuries I have received.

i realised now they will never have my back or care what happens to me. So yes the ‘point’ of having them is kind of irrelevant, because they are never my go to in emergencies anyway and never will be.

It would be unthinkable for anyone close to me to suffer in the way I have. It pains me to even think about this. So why is it okay for me?
Probably based on feelings of worthlessness and deep deep shame. If my own parents can’t love me how can I expect anyone else to?
I feel intrinsically like I don't deserve the happy life I now have, that it breeds simmering resentment in my family because I was destined to fall spectacularly. My brother was incredulous when I got married and had dc, he said memorably how on earth can YOU be a mother, you will never manage it - you are too selfish and your dh will see who you are and leave, he said this the night before my wedding. My mother commented on how much weight I had gained the same night.

So when my life didn’t implode, when I turned out to be a dedicated loving mother and somehow my dh is still here, they are still amazed. That’s what I am up against, they are waiting and are desperate to be proved ‘right’ and are waiting for my downfall - which is very sad when I think about it, as most parents want the best for their dc.

I worry I will be heavily judged by other people as broken by not having a loving family like everyone else. That the shame is mine, not my dp. It’s not my parents fault I am not especially loveable. It feels like that. Every Christmas or birthday I dread being asked!! I won’t lie so tend to make excuses and bumble through somehow.

@Biscuitsnotcookies the councillor was right in helping you to accept your mother for who she is, she won’t change but that’s just the first part. The next bit is working out if maintaining a relationship on that basis is healthy for you.

It also sounds like there is a lot of emotional trauma and learned behaviours that need unpacking, I’d suggest looking into EMDR therapy. You need to work towards a place of being indifferent towards your mother, you don’t have to cut her off if you don’t want to but if you’re more emotionally detached it will affect you less and be easier to handle.

You’ve been really strong in ensuring your children weren’t exposed to your parents toxicity, be proud of breaking the cycle.

OP "I worry I will be heavily judged by other people as broken by not having a loving family like everyone else."

Not everyone has a loving supportive family - I didn't.

Toxic families are more common than you think.

You are correct when you say "it's their shame, not mine"

I grew up in an abusive family. Cut my dad off before he died after him causing me to have a breakdown and it was the best thing I did. Took a long time though before I could- similar to you I was trying to have a relationship but I realised it was costing me too much. They sound like they only bring you negativity and pain and it's very draining and impacts you a lot. I have accepted he was never going to change but decided I no longer wanted to be part of it and I feel free compared to before and much happier. Good luck

@Biscuitsnotcookies the way you write about yourself is heartbreaking. Can you not see that your parents are wrong? You are loveable, you are loved by your husband, children and friends. You need to remember that, the shame is not yours, you have done nothing wrong. If people ask about your parents you don’t have to lie, just say I have no relationship with my parents, you don’t have to explain yourself or elaborate. There’s clearly a lot of deep seated issues you need to address but you need to be kind to yourself and remember none of this is your fault.

It's better to be on your own than with abusers. Every damn time.
Even in a game of tennis. It wouldn't work but you'd be better forfeiting and walking away than giving them any of your time.
You don't need their "family"
You have your own family now and I'd keep yourself and them well away.