To be so jealous of people who just see their own side?

[Haemagoblin]

Argh I feel like my head will explode.

Partner and I are in another of our periodic stalemates in our difficult relationship. There's a lot of background to this it would take forever to go into. I have two small children who we co-parent effectively and am not inclined to break up if it can be avoided until they've launched. basically our fundamental issue is the classic male-female ouroboros - I want more love/connection, he wants more sex. I am doing my best on my side of the equation, I don't feel he is doing his on the other. This blew up this week on holiday as I felt he was a snappy twat to me twice, never apologised, and pretty well ignored me the rest of the time unless with the children. As such I have felt no inclination to initiate the sex I don't particularly want but keep going because I know it is important to him. Has now been a week since we had sex, whereas usually try to initiate every 2-3 days. So much for the current state of play.

BUT, while he no doubt is feeling wounded and sorry for himself, I am:

• looking at it from my side, from his side, trying to imagine what it might look like to an objective third party;
• feeling uncomfortable with how things are, resentful of feeling I have to be the one to initiate 'sorting them out', dreading doing so, angry that he never will in a million years;
• running through about 4 alternative scenarios on how this could go from here, from just keep on ignoring it and see if he EVER cracks and brings it up through sheer sex starvation, to just forget about it and resume business as usual with another little rock of resentment in my spiritual shoe, to a long tedious debate (of which I have played out both sides in my head), to just breaking up with him because none of this is ever going to change;
• Conducting endless Google searches along the lines of 'Anxious/Avoidant attachment styles', 'rejection sensitive dysphoria', 'borderline personality disorder', 'am I a narcissist', 'is HE a narcissist'... etc etc

all of the above basically just desperately looking for a formula to crack this bloody endless cycle of rupture and (tenuous) repair to try and achieve some sort of liveable stability in this relationship, or achieve an 'aha!' moment where I feel like I know WHY it is so impossible and if it's his fault, my fault, six of one and half a dozen of the other, and ending up none the wiser and more sure than ever that there's no viable way forward that will get either of our needs met.

And all of this whilst trying to parent my children, do my work, be a thoughtful friend, etc etc etc... my head feels like it's going to explode with all the thoughts. Whereas if I'm honest I don't think he'll have thought about it once all day, or much at all except a grumpiness when I turn my back in bed at the end of the day instead of launching into sex.

It's a beautiful sunny afternoon; I have two beautiful children; I am intelligent, imaginative, creative; this is NOT how I want to be using my brain. I so so wish I could just be angry as fuck with him for talking to me like shit, give him a bollocking and not care if it upset him because I feel JUSTIFIED; not sleep with him because I don't want to and not care if that makes him unhappy or worry if it's fair; to just be on my own bloody side, like he is on his, instead of seeing it 400 different ways. I wish I could stop overthinking.

Why is it so hard for me to just be on my own side? To see things from MY perspective only? To not go down this bloody rabbit hole?

The more this goes on the more I feel like, whoever's fault it is/whoever is being unreasonable, this relationship doesn't serve me in any way whatever. But I don't feel like I can say that to him, because I don't want to hurt his fucking feelings. WHY? He doesn't give a monkey's about mine.

And reading this, I think maybe I'm just a LOT too much and that's why this is never going to work 😬

What do you mean when you say you want more love/connection? I get the sex part of this, but do you share conversations, activities, meal planning, house chores, time together with and without your children? What did you used to do together before you had your children?

Your brain sounds like my brain OP. Trying to see things from other people’s perspectives to try and resolve is all very well until the other doesn’t do it for you.
If it’s playing on your mind this much, it’s a problem you need to fix. It’s a waste of your energy.

Because women are socialised to see other people's perspectives. All the bloody time.

As you've been arguing about sex vs love/connection (I don't know what that means but I assume you've discussed it with hinm?), surely the answer is next time he complains you don't have enough sex tell him that you have been having more sex than you really want because he told you that he couldn't do love/connection without sex. But the love/connection is still not there so you're now going to refuse to have sex until he makes an effort on the love/connection side.

But honestly, I'm not hugely optimistic for you. You aooear to be attempting to bend over backwards to please a man who is making fuck all effort for you.

Having skim-read your OP, I’d say that he doesn’t bother thinking about different perspectives and exerting any emotional effort trying to figure things out between you because you do all the thinking and put in all the effort for him.

Has he always been this way, or has this developed over time?

It’s like a muscle imbalance in the body. The more work one muscle puts in, the other just wastes away. You need to rebalance things. That will mean stepping back and seeing if he will step up. Call his bluff and be the selfish one for once, basically. If you see his sulk and raise him an ‘I don’t really care’, will he try to find out how to fix things, or will he happily walk away?

Do the sex-starve and see what happens.

I want affection, attention and interaction basically.

Our relationship obviously has a few axes - as co-parents/cohabitees I'd say we're a solid 8/10 - there's a few niggles but nothing we can't improve/tolerate: we share chores and childcare, we have a decent work/life balance, we broadly agree on our parenting approach, we play to our respective strengths, we're a solid and efficient team.

Sexually it's about 4/10 for me - I don't want it and feel a lot of obligation around it but when we do it more often than not it's enjoyable. I do feel it's quite difficult for me to communicate what I like/don't like because he is so sensitive on the subject; but he'd prob say that's my fault due to going off it for so long after children and him feeling rejected.

But romantically, I honestly feel like we're 0/10. He isn't interested in me, he never asks me anything that isn't purely practical. If I try and have a conversation with him it's like pulling teeth - he doesn't seem interested in engaging with anything I have to say, or in sharing anything with me. He treats conversations like some sort of test to see how economically he can respond to anything I say/ask/initiate in the shortest and most 'shut it down' way possible. I feel incredibly lonely with him. So this week, for example, when I have been basically on unstated 'emotional labour strike' through dudgeon, I haven't initiated any conversation with him in the evenings beyond the basics, and we have literally sat in a room side by side saying NOTHING for two hours before I get fed up and go to bed. And for him, it would not be the least bit weird to go from that to having sex! That's the dissonance I struggle with.

Before children we used to DO things together (gigs, parties, restaurants, holidays). And sometimes have conversations, but he would always be quite conversationally skittish and retreat if I got animated/too 'deep'/talked about something he didn't feel confident in his knowledge on/there was any kind of debate. I guess I thought we were on a journey where we'd discover each other and grow more and more comfortable with each other as we went on; but if anything the opposite has happened.

So basically you're housemates who have sex? Yeah, don't blame you for not loving that. I wouldn't wnat to have sex with someone who had no interest in me as a person.

Oh god op yes it is exhausting seeing all sides but still I think I’d rather be that than the person who assumes there is only one way!!

myself and dh had the sex vs love thing- he has said men more feel loved through sex and when we didn’t he didn’t feel loved even though that whole time we were hugging chatting, holding hands, going on walks, making each other cups of tea, laughing, having movie nights in etc etc. we are struggling to put it mildly, not with sex but because we aren’t getting on as well as we’re both bitter

I may have misread this, but why are you always initiating sex if you aren’t that bothered about doing it. You sound like you are doing it to please him because you are scared of losing him. You also sound like you are doing all the work. He doesn’t sound like much fun. Are you sure he is worth all this effort? What happens if you back of from the relationship a bit? Would he put in more effort or would you drift apart? Maybe you would discover that you didn’t really mind.

Completely agree with this!
When you don’t have communication/effort and someone who’s interested in your needs as a person, then no amount of (admittedly very good and frequent) sex makes up for that.
You still feel lonely and unfulfilled.

I don't think I realised until it went how much our relationship depended on me having a high sex drive. So many disagreements which were never resolved verbally made up in bed. So many warning signs we were poorly suited emotionally ignored because we were so compatible sexually. Then pregnancy/kids/breastfeeding killed my drive stone dead and we're left with a lot of gaping holes where (in my opinion) emotional connection ought to be!

There’s a saying “men fall in love with women they lust after, and women fall into lust with the men they love”. I’ve always understood this to mean that men feel a connection AFTER they have sex, and women need that connection in order to feel they even want sex.

And by connection, I mean that warm and close feeling you get when your partner shows you they care about you. Often for women, resentment at being left to do the lions share of the domestic load, destroys any chance of connection, and therefore sex.

So I would suggest instead of going back and forth, just realise that you each have a different view point down to how your hormones work.

Instead focus on how to communicate these differences to each other and how to foster connection and care to keep you both feeling the same way about each other.

Use outside resources (therapy, books, online) to learn together.

HOWEVER, on the other hand this could just be (like me), you’ve just ended up with a selfish shit of a man who has guilt tripped you into believing it must be all your fault. If you are a genuinely fair and honest person, you will be turning yourself inside out to see his point of view.

Then do as I did - and see a qualified therapist (chartered clinical psychologist). They will give you an objective outsiders point of view and you may realise that your feelings are quite justified and it’s not only the bedroom where things are very wrong.

Im now happily divorced.

Because he's a moody fecker otherwise. Not moany or pestering, just gloomy. And (for some reason) I am really uncomfortable with him being unhappy.

And there's only so far we can 'drift apart' without something decisive happening because we have small kids. That's my motivation to keep trying to make this work - I want them to have one home, no step-parents/haf-siblings, to feel safe and secure. If it weren't for the kids I would NO WAY stick this out as it is at the moment. Another thing that I think he really needs to hear, but I can't say because I don't want to upset him.

That's the thing, I 100% agree but I don't think he would!!! He'd be perfectly happy if I never said another superflous-to-the-necessary word to him again I think, as long as I keep on initiating sex! Which I find baffling and somehow dehumanising.

Your reasoning makes sense to me.

You’re in a rut and I completely understand why you think that both of you doing what the other likes is the only way out of this because it becomes a vicious circle of less sex and less conversation/connection. If you both got what you want from the other then maybe you’d both enjoy giving what the other person liked.

In his defence (sorry ! Like you, I can overthink the other person’s pov) if he was never chatty and romantic then expecting it could be argued as unreasonable. What do you mean by the lack of confidence about talking ? I assume that you’re not wanting to discuss something technical like Middle East politics and would happy with him sharing his thoughts on subjects where there’s no wrong or right answer.

It sounds like a very lonely life. I think your only hope of salvaging it is counselling and trying to get him to see your side.

I have a feeling he will be the type who does not want to go to counselling though.

It really doesn't sound as if you're compatible. You want deep meaningful conversations, he tired of it quite early on and avoids it now. That's why you get the bare minimum.

It can make you tired when you're attached to an overthinker, I have a friend like that and sometimes a message is like wheel of fortune. I love her dearly. I couldn't live with her though.

You just can't meet each others needs. Theres nothing wrong with either of you.

Absolutely. It’s called being an empath. Some people have more empathy than others. You’ve got a lot of it. It’s part of emotional intelligence, it’s a pain when others are so lacking in it but there we are Xx

I'd be happy with him sharing his thoughts with me on literally ANYTHING beyond schedule for the week and the menu (although I'm happy to talk those through as needed!). I don't expect huge knowledge, strong opinion, or Wildean wit - just openness.

I know it's an annoying question but whenever I've asked him "what are you thinking about?", instead of just saying "when to plant potatoes at the allotment" or "why the plural of papyrus isn't papyri" or "if I should move the car now next door have left the space outside" (literally WHATEVER the hell he was thinking), he'll just say "this and that" or "nothing much" - it's like he would literally prefer NOT to share with me at all. Like he resents the intrusion.

It will surprise no-one to know he has never, EVER asked me what I'm thinking.

Does he try to make sex good for you?

I'm gonna guess it's a bit fat no.

Why do you think you have to stay with someone like this.

What do you mean by the kids being launched?

It's a beautiful sunny afternoon; I have two beautiful children; I am intelligent, imaginative, creative; this is NOT how I want to be using my brain. I so so wish I could just be angry as fuck with him for talking to me like shit, give him a bollocking and not care if it upset him because I feel JUSTIFIED; not sleep with him because I don't want to and not care if that makes him unhappy or worry if it's fair; to just be on my own bloody side, like he is on his, instead of seeing it 400 different ways.

Seriously just do this.

I tend to go with the facts and not try to mind read or analyse people. Stop trying to analyse him, that's for his therapist.

I think couple's counselling might be beneficial where you can hash all this out in a neutral space. He needs to learn better ways of communicating and you both need to reforge your connection.

It seems as if it weren't for the DC this relationship would have ended by now. How old are the DC because if they're still little I don't see how you can go on like this for the next decade.

Yep! My ex would have been very happy if I never brought up a feeling or need as long as we got jiggy regularly. Spent far too much time trying to understand him, ask for things in a way that wouldn’t hurt his feelings, or upset him and cause conflict, and lost myself in the process.
He would never have been able to think about my needs or feelings, he’s just too self centred and I got out when I knew that wouldn’t change.