To be so jealous of people who just see their own side?

[Haemagoblin]

Argh I feel like my head will explode.

Partner and I are in another of our periodic stalemates in our difficult relationship. There's a lot of background to this it would take forever to go into. I have two small children who we co-parent effectively and am not inclined to break up if it can be avoided until they've launched. basically our fundamental issue is the classic male-female ouroboros - I want more love/connection, he wants more sex. I am doing my best on my side of the equation, I don't feel he is doing his on the other. This blew up this week on holiday as I felt he was a snappy twat to me twice, never apologised, and pretty well ignored me the rest of the time unless with the children. As such I have felt no inclination to initiate the sex I don't particularly want but keep going because I know it is important to him. Has now been a week since we had sex, whereas usually try to initiate every 2-3 days. So much for the current state of play.

BUT, while he no doubt is feeling wounded and sorry for himself, I am:

• looking at it from my side, from his side, trying to imagine what it might look like to an objective third party;
• feeling uncomfortable with how things are, resentful of feeling I have to be the one to initiate 'sorting them out', dreading doing so, angry that he never will in a million years;
• running through about 4 alternative scenarios on how this could go from here, from just keep on ignoring it and see if he EVER cracks and brings it up through sheer sex starvation, to just forget about it and resume business as usual with another little rock of resentment in my spiritual shoe, to a long tedious debate (of which I have played out both sides in my head), to just breaking up with him because none of this is ever going to change;
• Conducting endless Google searches along the lines of 'Anxious/Avoidant attachment styles', 'rejection sensitive dysphoria', 'borderline personality disorder', 'am I a narcissist', 'is HE a narcissist'... etc etc

all of the above basically just desperately looking for a formula to crack this bloody endless cycle of rupture and (tenuous) repair to try and achieve some sort of liveable stability in this relationship, or achieve an 'aha!' moment where I feel like I know WHY it is so impossible and if it's his fault, my fault, six of one and half a dozen of the other, and ending up none the wiser and more sure than ever that there's no viable way forward that will get either of our needs met.

And all of this whilst trying to parent my children, do my work, be a thoughtful friend, etc etc etc... my head feels like it's going to explode with all the thoughts. Whereas if I'm honest I don't think he'll have thought about it once all day, or much at all except a grumpiness when I turn my back in bed at the end of the day instead of launching into sex.

It's a beautiful sunny afternoon; I have two beautiful children; I am intelligent, imaginative, creative; this is NOT how I want to be using my brain. I so so wish I could just be angry as fuck with him for talking to me like shit, give him a bollocking and not care if it upset him because I feel JUSTIFIED; not sleep with him because I don't want to and not care if that makes him unhappy or worry if it's fair; to just be on my own bloody side, like he is on his, instead of seeing it 400 different ways. I wish I could stop overthinking.

Why is it so hard for me to just be on my own side? To see things from MY perspective only? To not go down this bloody rabbit hole?

The more this goes on the more I feel like, whoever's fault it is/whoever is being unreasonable, this relationship doesn't serve me in any way whatever. But I don't feel like I can say that to him, because I don't want to hurt his fucking feelings. WHY? He doesn't give a monkey's about mine.

It's so hard to unpick - we've been together for almost twenty years, since leaving university, and i don't think either of us were fully formed at that point - this relationship has shaped us both and probably both of us aren't who we would have been if we'd stayed single or chosen differently.

I do know I have similar dynamics with my dad and my sister - both of whom are very 'lock it in a box' with any feelings, very fixed on being in control, and very short if they feel they are being put on the spot/challenged emotionally. The argument I had with my DP last week almost exactly mirrored the argument I had with my sister a couple of months ago, when I just got fed up with (as I perceive it) being spoken to like shit - snapped and and shut down basically. But the common denominator there is me so I have to assume this is my shit as much as it is theirs.

My partner has said he doesn't feel the need to share his feelings, it doesn't make him feel better, and he feels I don't accept what he says when he does say it. And yeah, the only emotion he expresses strongly is anger. It's like any other feeling overwhelms him and that makes him angry. Mostly he just shuts it all away. He also doesn't like putting anything out in the world unless it's 'perfect' - so he doesn't just want to have a conversation about feelings, where you express something, someone responds to it, you both shift and go back on yourselves and rearticulate to get closer to the reality - he wants to spend ages crafting exactly what he wants to say, say it and that be an end of it. No dialogue, no questioning. That isn't really a useful conversation to me.

He is definitely more open with me than with anyone else. His family don't do feelings at all. Lot of high functioning autism in there in my completely untrained opinion.

*snapped at

@ThisHazelSwan I found your posts so helpful and supportive, thank you x

Did he go to boarding school?

No, private school with SAHM until his teens.

The more I read of this thread OP, the more I think that you've made it all about YOU. I know that statement sounds daft, as obviously this is why you posted in the first place, but you appear to have made up your mind that you are staying in this relationship come what may, to protect your children from a broken home, and the sort of life you experienced as a child. However, the fact is, that YOU are not the only one involved, and YOU can't control this situation, no matter how hard you try. No matter how much you work on yourself, or try to give your kids the best life you can, this is all dependant on HIM! For all your plans to stay together, HE can throw a spanner in the works at any time, then what happens? You've wasted all those years, being unhappy, but sticking it out for the good of your kids, and trying to protect them from a broken home, and in one fell swoop, HE can wash all of this away regardless. It may not happen this week, or this month, or even this year. You may actually stick it out for another 3, 5 or even 7 years, and then, one day he comes home and says 'I've had enough, I'm off'. Therefore your kids could still end up in the situation that you're putting yourself through hell, to prevent.

So, my question to you, is, what is the point of putting yourself through an unhappy life for however many years, when the situation is actually completely out of YOUR control?

I am the same as you OP. I don’t think it’s helpful to look at it in terms of fault - rather than you’re probably more emotionally intelligent and self aware than they are perhaps.

I certainly feel closer to people when they express how they feel. Some people do not have this skill. They will have the argument with you ‘in their head’ - talking your side as well as theirs, come to a conclusion - give you that conclusion and not allow any open discussion on the topic. Whereas I prefer to say “I’m sure you didn’t mean it, but that thing you did makes me feel this way - is there anything going on” and try to find a resolution, be it that I am in the wrong, they are, or more often - a mixture of both. It’s essential a trial in absentia on their behalf - being both judge and jury and finding you guilty whilst not allowing you to take the stand.

If you’re an overthinker, and an intelligent and emotionally resilient one at that, you will be more inclined to look for fault in YOUR behaviour because that means you can fix it. You can’t control how other people behave, only how you can. I do this all the time and unfortunately it has turned me in to a door mat at times. Being the way you are can be quite lonely, it’s a rare quality to have this much self awareness.

It sounds like he is very insecure. Does the bare minimum as if he tries and fucks up, it’ll no longer be perfect and he may be perceived differently. He says he doesn’t want to talk because it doesn’t make him feel better, but it would make you feel better! Is there any truth in him saying that you wouldn’t accept it any way?

I don’t think you should have sex if you don’t want to. By the same token, if you pull away he will pull away more due to pride. He really does need to consider opening up to you more. It feels like that is the intimacy you need

For a lot of men, particularly neurodivergent men, this question is too hard. I used to find it hard too. If you're craving connection through talking as more specific questions, or buy a game that elicits conversation.

He's not bothered that he is upsetting or hurting you.

That's what this boils down to.

In healthy relationships, where both partners genuinely care about each other, they both ARE taking each other into account.

You can either stay in relationship with a man who is just not bothered that he is upsetting you, or you can leave.

What you can't do is get him to start caring about how he making you feel. So give up on that, whether you stay or go.

I've looked through all your posts now.

Your partner is never going to change.

How he is, does not suit you.

You either stay and accept how things are or leave.

I'm sorry, but there simply isn't a third alternative.

Do you think he could be on the autistic spectrum? My ex was. He could never talk about feelings or anything personal really. He just was not interested in human interactions or feelings. When we watched films it was like we watched two different films - he was interested in action or puzzle to be solved (depending what the film was about), I was interested in the relational dynamics between the characters.

This sounds like an utterly miserable existence.
But if you're insistent on staying & having sex that you don't want then my advice would be to push through the awkwardness and his moods (they're inevitable anyway by the sounds of it), because he's not a good lover if he can't adapt to what works for you now, keep trying to communicate about that so at least the sex isn't so rubbish and you can have one aspect of your life with proper connection.
Also suggest he gets solo counselling prior to then alongside couples counselling so he can express himself without you there.
FWIW my parents divorced at 2 and my mum remarried a man who is more of a real dad to me and I truly love spending time with them still. I am always glad my mum didn't stay with my real dad.

As I say, if he leaves me he leaves me. In a way it would be an enormous relief to have the decision taken out of my hands. But I'd be devastated for my kids still because their lives would become massively more complicated. But I look on that as something beyond my control. I can't decide what he's happy to live with. But I can decide for myself, and I have to decide for them.

Then I’m afraid you have to make that decision and stop moaning about it all.
You can’t change him. You are choosing to stay. QED.

Your catastrophosising of how your kids lives would be if you split up is bewildering to me. My parents split when I was three and I’m so grateful they did - life would have been miserable with them together ‘for me’. OMG. What a terrible weight that would have been on my shoulders then and now.

I'm sorry but this board is full day and night of people 'moaning about it all'. If you don't want to read it or respond to it don't, but you're not the board police and you don't get any benefit from telling someone in a difficult place they have no right to vent and seek anonymous support on a forum pretty much designed for the purpose.

And QED doesn't mean what you think it means judging by how you used it in that context.

And I'm not catastrophising, I am literally describing the childhood i had. And what I had wasn't even that bad compared to what some kids go through. You were clearly lucky and didn't find it difficult. Bully for you. But both from my own personal experience and statistically, parental separation is an Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE). Look it up.

Er, you are posting here (and posting and posting and posting) basically saying that your OH cannot be who you need him to be, but that you refuse to leave because it will traumatise your children.
You want responses. I gave you one.

You want to stop the overthinking, so stop it. Stop moaning. Stop trying to fix what you know you can’t fix.

And I know exactly what QED means; it works perfectly in the context I used it.

And yes, separation is an ACE, but so is living with a mother who plays the martyr her whole life ‘for the sake of the kids’. The choice is about which will do the least harm. You have made your choice, so live with it and the chance you may have got it wrong. A chance you are evidently determined to take.

No point getting shirty just because you don’t like what you’re reading. It’s an honest view of a situation you asked for views on.

I recognise a lot of this too. I’ve been with my DH for many years since we were quite young and I too feel we’ve shaped each other as we’ve grown. It’s hard to change dynamics that have developed over years and I don’t yet know whether that’s possible for us. But I’m giving it a shot by working on me and what I want from my life with the hope that he will follow. Or if not that I will be in a strong place to leave if that’s what it comes to.

One thing that jumped out at me is that you said that you have a similar dynamic with your father and sister and that it’s your shit too which sounds like you think there’s something about you or your behaviour that’s making them act this way and if you can identify it then you can change. But another explanation would be that you’ve been able to put up with your husband’s behaviour for so long because it feels familiar to you because of your experiences with your dad and sister. It’s nothing to do with who you are, just that feeling like your emotional needs aren’t being met has been somehow comfortable for you because that’s what’s happened before with people you love. But it’s ok if that’s changed for you now, and that you need more.

You’re honestly not asking for too much - emotional connection with a loving partner who can meet your needs is what everyone should have from life. Good luck with finding your way xx

It is very strange that he has such a rich inner life (the music, the novel writing) but will not open up about it.

Could something like you writing a journal (or perhaps even doing something creative together) be a point at which to find common ground?

Ultimately, a decision to stay in an imperfect long-term relationship is a process that requires compartmentalising yourself. It requires an honest acceptance that the honeymoon, the first flush of romance, the first decade...all of those points are well and truly in your past. You are deciding not to go pursuing that with anyone else, which appears easy enough to do in the modern world. You are deciding to stay for other reasons. But there can be something equally valuable in that decision...

Do you think he'd be there if you got ill? What about when you're elderly? Or the children have left? I'm just giving you scenarios. I thought the previous poster was unkind but also had valid points. You don't have to sacrifice your happiness. I don't think there's a perfect person, or perfect relationship. I think relationships are sometimes rocky. I don't think people should leave easily. But equally, you deserve to have a life where you feel supported and loved and your needs matter as much as his.

My belief is that he is just so emotionally illiterate sex is his "communication", his "connection", it fulfils everything for him that I can only get from what I consider to be "real" engagement - talking, sharing, affectionate behaviour, showing that you think about them when they're not there, that you understand them. He gets all that from sex.

So stop. He's not meeting your emotional needs, why should you meet his. Stop having sex that you don't want.

When he complains, tell him that you are not feeling close enough to want sex with him. Take control.

Personally, I think you are afraid that he would leave you but you cannot live in fear of this, serving up timetabled sex just to keep him with you. That is soul destroying.

I'm not afraid of him leaving me. In many ways I would be glad if he did. I am afraid of living in a constant cloud of bad atmosphere and my kids picking up on that. I am much more willing and able to keep my dissatisfaction from them and keep it out of our daily life together than he is. Hence the serving up of timetabled sex. It's not to keep him with me; it's to make our family life tolerable. When he is moody and unhappy it affects everyone.

Oh OP, this is so sad.
Did you say you are getting counselling. I think it would be helpful to work through your feelings about your parents separating.

The truth is, you don't know how separating would effect your kids. I have spoken to people who say they were relieved when their parents split up and one who even said she liked it, as she could play her parents against each other to get what she wanted!

You can see the control you can try to exercise when keeping the family together, but you don't seem to see the control you can exercise to limit any negative effect of a separation, or even control to make splitting up have positives for your kids.

All of this is about guilt you would feel about separation, but in no scenario do you need to feel guilt. You have not ruined the marriage - he has. None of this is on you.

Oh that’s so sad. I can see you really want to protect your children and to keep them from experiencing the unhappiness that you had as a child. That’s so understandable and I can see how your love for them leads you to making sacrifices to keep your DH happy. But it’s such a high cost to you and I wonder if it’s actually achieving what you want? I don’t know how old they are but your DC could be learning either that love means putting your own needs last (as you do) or that if they sulk and moan they will get what they want (as your DH does). I know you’re hiding your feelings from them but they may well be picking up on the dynamic already.

With my DH him deliberately showing his unhappiness in front of our DC was a red line for me. It’s one of the things that damaged the love I feel for him. So I made it very clear I won’t accept that. It was one of the upsides of our crisis last year. He thought I would never leave him but things got so bad that I really thought I would have to and that seemed to bring him to his senses a bit in that he isn’t so secure in our relationship and believes me when I tell him what I won’t accept. I find those boundaries much easier to put in place for my DC than myself but I am working on that.

Time will tell whether things can really shift between us. But just to reassure you there are other options besides just leaving him and settling for the way things are now. Have you got any close friends you confide it? As well as therapy I’ve really drawn on my close friends who love me and can give me some perspective when I’m losing my way a bit. Plus it’s so nice to feel loved for who you are, I have drawn so much strength from the love of my friends.

Mate. This is dire.

I don't know what's the right thing to do but I'm really hoping things change and change soon.

DH's parents split when he went to uni and that was pretty shit. My parents spilt when I was a young kid and that was pretty shit. Your life now seems very shit.

I would stop initiating sex and see how that goes for a bit. It might make him at least think and consider you as a person

I'm not afraid of him leaving me. In many ways I would be glad if he did.

But I thought you said that separation would be the worst and the one thing that you are absolutely against which is why you won't do it. But now you say you would be glad if you separated?