To be so jealous of people who just see their own side?

[Haemagoblin]

Argh I feel like my head will explode.

Partner and I are in another of our periodic stalemates in our difficult relationship. There's a lot of background to this it would take forever to go into. I have two small children who we co-parent effectively and am not inclined to break up if it can be avoided until they've launched. basically our fundamental issue is the classic male-female ouroboros - I want more love/connection, he wants more sex. I am doing my best on my side of the equation, I don't feel he is doing his on the other. This blew up this week on holiday as I felt he was a snappy twat to me twice, never apologised, and pretty well ignored me the rest of the time unless with the children. As such I have felt no inclination to initiate the sex I don't particularly want but keep going because I know it is important to him. Has now been a week since we had sex, whereas usually try to initiate every 2-3 days. So much for the current state of play.

BUT, while he no doubt is feeling wounded and sorry for himself, I am:

• looking at it from my side, from his side, trying to imagine what it might look like to an objective third party;
• feeling uncomfortable with how things are, resentful of feeling I have to be the one to initiate 'sorting them out', dreading doing so, angry that he never will in a million years;
• running through about 4 alternative scenarios on how this could go from here, from just keep on ignoring it and see if he EVER cracks and brings it up through sheer sex starvation, to just forget about it and resume business as usual with another little rock of resentment in my spiritual shoe, to a long tedious debate (of which I have played out both sides in my head), to just breaking up with him because none of this is ever going to change;
• Conducting endless Google searches along the lines of 'Anxious/Avoidant attachment styles', 'rejection sensitive dysphoria', 'borderline personality disorder', 'am I a narcissist', 'is HE a narcissist'... etc etc

all of the above basically just desperately looking for a formula to crack this bloody endless cycle of rupture and (tenuous) repair to try and achieve some sort of liveable stability in this relationship, or achieve an 'aha!' moment where I feel like I know WHY it is so impossible and if it's his fault, my fault, six of one and half a dozen of the other, and ending up none the wiser and more sure than ever that there's no viable way forward that will get either of our needs met.

And all of this whilst trying to parent my children, do my work, be a thoughtful friend, etc etc etc... my head feels like it's going to explode with all the thoughts. Whereas if I'm honest I don't think he'll have thought about it once all day, or much at all except a grumpiness when I turn my back in bed at the end of the day instead of launching into sex.

It's a beautiful sunny afternoon; I have two beautiful children; I am intelligent, imaginative, creative; this is NOT how I want to be using my brain. I so so wish I could just be angry as fuck with him for talking to me like shit, give him a bollocking and not care if it upset him because I feel JUSTIFIED; not sleep with him because I don't want to and not care if that makes him unhappy or worry if it's fair; to just be on my own bloody side, like he is on his, instead of seeing it 400 different ways. I wish I could stop overthinking.

Why is it so hard for me to just be on my own side? To see things from MY perspective only? To not go down this bloody rabbit hole?

The more this goes on the more I feel like, whoever's fault it is/whoever is being unreasonable, this relationship doesn't serve me in any way whatever. But I don't feel like I can say that to him, because I don't want to hurt his fucking feelings. WHY? He doesn't give a monkey's about mine.

I suspect this may be true as well. I guess my issue is I'm bending over backwards (sometimes literally!) to try and accommodate his needs a d preferences, and he doesn't APPEAR to be making any effort to meet mine. Which implies it's not just that he isn't showing care "the way I want him to" but doesn't actually care at all. Because if he did, surely he would want me to be happy as I want him to, and try to compromise a bit to get us both there? Rather than just digging in with "this is what I'm like, the end"?

And to clarify it definitely is a question of last resort when I'm so starved of meaningful interaction and have tried to start any number of conversations both casual and otherwise and been brushed off for days or weeks.

He's actually not at all boring that's what's so frustrating!!! He's intelligent, talented, knowledgeable and well read (and incidentally quite a looker, definitely out of my league). It's just he keeps it all locked away inside. He waits until I'm out of the house to play musical instruments so I won't hear what he's working on; he writes novels but won't let me read them or talk to me about them. He just doesn't want to let me in at all. I wish I could say he's a boring twat but he's really not.

You seem to be sabotaging this relationship because you don’t feel good enough for him. You are good enough. Focus on that.

If I give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he isn’t being so closed off maliciously, rather just out of habit, then how about doing something together which gets you talking. Like the 36 Questions if you’ve heard of that.

Also I would want to try couples therapy.

OP obviously what anyone says here isn't going to help, so if you really want to spend 16-18 years meaninglessly servicing your man with no conversation, no fulfilment or even joy then by all means go ahead. But you are going to need to learn to accept, or atleast live with, these "flaws" of his and make the best of it to ensure your children don't end up with similar "issues" in the long run. An atmosphere of silent contempt and resentment is no place for children to be forced into at their parents say so. Either way you do know your choices are likely going to have some form of affect on them down the line.

Also just to add women have worked hard for their right to have their needs recognised and respected, that shouldn't be brushed aside or diminished so children don't have the MN version of a blended family. Its actually quite sad that you think like that.

I don't know what you mean about the "MN blended family". I'm talking about my own specific experiences of a blended family (and more specifically being without my mother a lot of the time). And she and my father's relationship really WAS awful and abusive and she was right to leave; it was still shitty for me and caused me a lot of issues.

Ah i was just going to ask about your childhood. That's the reason you question if you are reasonable/unreasonable and where a lot of this stems from. You aren't doing anything to your children , he is. You can't control another person, you can't make them happy or not gloomy as you have described. He is an adult, he needs to act like one. Stop protecting him, it's a kind of fawning/people pleasing trait which has probably served you well in the past but you are bascially doing anything you can to stop the feelings you get when he is grumpy/moody as you can't stand how that makes you feel. You are trying to manipulate him into being what you need , I am not using manipulate in an awful sense of the word you are doing it to protect yourself.

OP do you not think that having parents who can't/won't communicate, may harm your kids in the long run? After all, it's hardly going to be teaching them what a truly loving relationship is like, is it? There are other ways of harming our kids, other than letting them seeing their parents constantly rowing, or physically fighting, you know. My parents wouldn't speak to each other for days after they'd had a disagreement. Most of the time we didn't have a clue what was going on, but there was an atmosphere, which we picked up on, and so learned not to speak out of turn, and tip toed around, for fear of causing something to happen. It sounds like YOU need some therapy to deal with your own experiences growing up, and then maybe you'll feel able to leave this relationship, which is giving YOU absolutely nothing by way of happiness and fulfilment, other than your children. I'm sorry you had an unhappy childhood, but please don't make the mistake of thinking that staying together come what may, is better for your kids than spending time with happy, fulfilled parents, which you both may be, if you're away from each other.

Sounds like all your attempts at communication with him have been verbal.
Have you tried anything else? Write a letter? Record a video of you telling him how you feel?

Some people aren’t good ‘in the moment’ with sharing conversations, but if you give him some time to reflect and choose when and how to respond, you may have more joy.

It’s not easier to leave when they’ve flown the nest because they adore that nest and keep wanting to come back and visit it and spend Christmas and birthdays in it with their family.

They want to bring their new partners to the nest so they can see where they grew up. They want to turn up when everything has gone to shit and feel the comfort of the nest.

They don’t leave and become magically unaffected by their parents’ lives.

I have a male friend who was absolutely devastated that his parents split in his late 20’s and fell into depression.

Well my parents split when I was 2 and I'm not doing so great either. I mean if I could go back in time and not have them with the wrong guy I would but I can't. There will never be a perfect time, but when they are adults and I can explain and they can articulate their feelings to me about it, and they have to choice about who to live with and when, it will be a proposition I could justify to myself versus taking away the only security they ever knew when they're too small to understand it at all or even have their expressed wishes listened to about who they want to live with.

I can build them a new nest to come back to at that point, and so can he. The point is they will be able to choose then, if they want to come back to it and if so to whose. They won't be dragged from pillar to post on the whim of the family court, or have to live with adults and other kids they didn't choose who have no obligation to be good to them except their own good will.

I did write an email once. He never responded and asked me not to do it again

Come on now, that is just weird. Does he share with anyone? Is he depressed? Introverted to the point of insanity?

Well these are the thoughts I tax myself with! And I'm not closer to knowing.

He could just be becoming a grumpy old man. My ex did. He also started to withdraw, after his career took off and mine tanked and I had outlived my usefulness.

So there’s no meeting of minds here. If it wasn’t there before you had kids then I don’t see how it will ever be possible. (Speaking from experience).

Do you think your DH is happy?
The way you described your husband doesn't paint the picture of someone living a happy and fulfilling life.
What you are describing is two people who are totally miserable. How can you possibly think that living with two totally miserable parents won't harm your children?
You sound like you have decided to be a martyr and are sacrificing yourself for your children. Which is obviously your right. But be careful that you don't end up blaming them for your choices.

No I don't at all. Which is why I try to talk to her m about what would make him so. But apart from more sex, he doesn't want to talk about it (and to be fair he didn't really want to talk about that, I basically had to drag it out of him).

It's so easy for other people to say "break up, you'll all be happier" when it's not your children whose normal and for the most part happy lives will be upended into god knows what. It might somehow magically all work out - we'd somehow get on so much better as separated co parents than we do now, our kids would have two happy homes and wouldn't suffer - but that is so unlikely. The overwhelming likelihood is disruption, upheaval, upset, housing insecurity, subsequent blended families that may or may not work out, disagreements between us that will continue to occur as we will still have to be very involved with each other co-parenting the kids. I don't see that he is going to be any more courteous to me when there is literally nothing in it for him, or that I will be any happier when by my own choice I don't have my kids 50% of the time. It's a bunch of bad options, but I don't understand how people can state so confidently separating now is by far the best one when all I can see are the disadvantages.

Ah well. I said I wouldn't enter into this debate but it's all most people want to talk about. It's very rare that people whose parents actually did separate when they were little pop up to say how happy they were that they did. It's always people who had parents who bickered and fought but "stayed together for the children" advocating this, because they only know the crap side of staying, not the crap side of going.

And I would NEVER blame my children, or expect some kind of "payoff" for "all I sacrificed for you" (tiny violin). I am their mum. They don't owe me anything. I made them and I owe them the best life I can give them under the less than ideal circumstances I brought them into. And whatever I choose, I take full responsibility for the consequences and can only hope they will forgive me.

Thank you for your response, it does sound difficult for you, and I can understand better now what you meant. It would be hard for me to offer any advice, but I hope things work out for you, whatever if anything you decide to do.

You can't separate whilst they are at uni OP. That would be terrible timing. So I guess you mean when they have finished further education and have secured jobs that enable them to live independently. So, when your youngest is about 25. How many years is that?

I think you will look back with so many regrets.

It’s really not meant to be this hard. Your partner is supposed to make you happy.

My ex’s parents stayed together ‘for the kids’ and split as soon as he (the youngest) graduated uni. It was chaos and he had no real model of what a family should look like - he thought he and I should stay miserable together, as to him, that’s what marriage was.

Just saying; don’t assume the kids will thank you for it, down the line.

I've already said. I don't expect anything from them, not gratitude or thanks or some sort of "payoff". I don't know why everyone thinks that's what I'm looking for.

People telling me how basically it will always fuck my children up whenever I leave are making me feel even more trapped, not motivating me to leave. Because, as I say, no-one is coming from the perspective of a child whose parents split when they were young kids saying it was a great outcome for them.

And having experienced both sides of the coin I look at me (whose parents separated) and my half brother (whose parents, despite their dysfunctional relationship, are still together now) - I am a mess in a difficult relationship I don't feel I can leave because of my kids. He is a confident, successful single man who has never compromised in life and has everything he wants. So from a small evidence pool (which is what everyone here is working with with all these "my friends cousin" anecdotes) I'd say it worked out better for him. And the actual statistics plainly show that parental separation in childhood is an ACE which correlates to poor outcomes. So why everyone is so keen for me to take that path, allegedly for my children's sake, I just don't know. It won't make them happier, in the short term or necessarily the long term. There is no evidence or basis for that beside one-sided reporting from people who experienced the opposite thinking the grass would have been greener.

There are no good options here OP, it about finding the least worse for you and him and the kids. If your DC are currently small it's easier to muddle through, but teens will bring an entirely new test. How will you feel if they side with your H? How will you both be able to tackle the emotional storms of teens when your H can't cope with carefully worded criticism from you?
From my own experience there is no easy way to resolve any of this, as PP said there is no easy age for your parents to split up..
But i fear at some point you or him will snap and it will get nasty. Ending things on your own terms, as rationally as you can, maybe the only way forward.

Are you an overthinker, or lacking in self worth? or is he just a stubborn old boot who won't change ( most people don't) and he doesn't even think about any of this stuff (many men just don't).