Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

[ThisPinkWyvern]

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified.

The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison.

In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls.

When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

Some one with XX chromosones of 6ft 4 ? Really that is vanishingly rare.

So it isn't important to you and therefore you don't care that it is important to other people? How charming!

You missed out laughable, nonsensical and ridiculous!
It’s like TRA bingo! Clownfish! 😂 Have we had the Scientific American article yet? 🤣

So telling a group that their opinions are nonsensical is not censuring. Telling posters their questions are stupid is 'not censuring anyone'?

And posting laughing reactions on posts that are not funny is 'not censuring anyone'?

Good to know where your boundaries on censuring sit. Thanks for letting me know.

Please can you explain to me what gender is?

If you want me to think it is a real thing then can you please define it for me?

It's not that rare.

my 18 to son is only 5 foot tall but definitely looks male.
Dressed in a skirt he would look like a hort male in a skirt

Please can you explain to me what gender is?
If you want me to think it is a real thing then can you please define it for me?

Oh yes please, we'd all love to know!

Or if that's too tricky, what are the key differences between man and woman gender? Or just one?

The average transman is 5 foot 2". They can be even shorter if they had the misfortune to take puberty blockers.

Women who identify as men can look a lot like men in carefully posed photos, but in real life they have a female gait which is the most obvious way to instantly spot that they are women. Then there's the small hands and feet, wide hips, narrow shoulders, lack of male nuchal crest...

I know a few transmen in real life and they all look female. It's heart breaking that they have given up so much in pursuit of something that they will never have. There should be far more discussion at gender clinics about the fact that so many transmen end up incontinent because of the effects of taking so much testosterone. Sadly, what toilet they choose to use is the least of their problems.

Sigh! Has anyone been attacked or abused by a trans woman? So much anger on this thread. If you really want women to feel safe and keep their freedoms, way of life and dignity maybe energy should be put into protesting about the actions of Trump and his administration towards women - sacking of high profile women, abortion rights, diversity etc. we don’t want that here! He is not acting to benefit women.

This study shows that a staggering number of transmen become incontinent. It absolutely needs to be talked about more widely.

da Silva, L.M.B., Freire, S.N.D., Moretti, E. et al. Pelvic Floor Dysfunction in Transgender Men on Gender-affirming Hormone Therapy: A Descriptive Cross-sectional Study. Int Urogynecol J (2024). https://doi.org/10.1007/s00192-024-05779-3

Elaine Miller, a pelvic health physiotherapist and member of the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy, said... she had worked with around 20 detransitioners who sought help for pelvic floor issues - and many more from around the world had been in touch - but that there was a “stigma” around incontinence and that people were “embarrassed” and minimised the issue.

“Wetting yourself is something that just is not socially acceptable, and it stops people from exercising, it stops them from having intimate relationships, it stops them from travelling, it has work impacts,” she said.
“The impact a bit of leaking has on these young people’s lives is huge. It really needs to be properly discussed within gender clinics because I would expect that almost 100 per cent of female people that take cross-sex hormones will end up with these problems.”

This is what I don't understand, and have genuinely tried to.

The woman you refer to (Rachel Anne Dolezal) was completely vilified, 'cancelled', and ripped to shreds. There was a scathing netflix documentary about her.
She had dedicated her life to raising awareness for BLM and grassroots issued effecting black people, she was adopted by black parents as a baby.

I genuinely don't see how this is different to someone transitioning gender. I genuinely, genuinely, have tried.

I don't know if OP is still here but if you are can you (or someone) please tell me why you believe it's different?

Sigh….i’ve never been raped, am I allowed not to care about rape survivors because it’s never happened to me??

redefining women to mean “adult human female and men who claim to have lady feelings” affects every single woman so away with your nonsense

Sadly lots of the women on Mumsnet, like me, have been attacked or abused by transwomen. The government figures show that over 70% of the transwomen currently incarcerated have convictions for sex crimes or other extremely violent crime.

These are the UK figures, but the evidence suggests that men who identify as women exhibit male pattern violence in all the countries where men can be openly trans.

More than 70 per cent of transgender prisoners are in for sex offences or violent crimes

In your opinion it’s irrational that doesn’t make your opinion fact

Yes, my opinion. Hope that's clear, wouldn't want you to construct any more straw men.

Quote from the Telegraph article linked above:
"More than 70 per cent of transgender prisoners in British jails are serving sentences for sex offences and violent crimes, government figures have revealed.
At least 181 of the 244 transgender inmates, more than 74 per cent, are in jail for crimes including rape, forcing under-age children into having sex, grievous bodily harm and robbery.
Up to 144 transgender women, men who identify as females, are housed in male prisons while five are currently imprisoned in female jails - including at least one top-security institution where murderers and terrorists are being detained.
The high levels of violent crimes among male prisoners who identify as women demonstrates why they should not be detained in female prisons, women’s rights campaigners argue."

Buck Angel, yes. Buck has that gnarled look and is older.

Buck is tiny.

No, I have not personally been attacked by a transwoman, I also don't participate in sports, but I still care about female athletes losing to transwomen, because I care about safety and fairness.

You don't have to be personally affected to care about issues.

I didn’t say I don’t care I just think it’s absolutely impossible to police. And in reality trans men wouldn’t be welcomed into the women’s toilet.

Again, many "trans men" just look like women with short hair.

I was in a queue for self-service tills where the till supervisor was an individual half an inch shorter than me, rather overweight, with wispy facial hair and a traditionally male name on the shop-branded badge, but visibly female in build and gait to my eyes.

Behind me in the queue were two men. We paid at different tills and left the shop at the same time. One man said to the other "Funny looking bloke". The other replied, "That wasn't a bloke, it was a fat burd with a beard!" Not terribly polite, but it shows that even some men can tell.

Didn’t say I didn’t care just trying to find out how many people have had a bad experience with a transgender woman on this thread. I am trying to understand the depth of feeling here as I’m struggling with the strong feelings being exhibited. I have known transgender women and have never felt threatened if anything I think they are more likely to be attacked. I just find your attitudes bizarre.

They're men, so I find your inability to comprehend why women don't want them in women only spaces bizarre, @user1471523931

You can "struggle" with other people's beliefs all you like, but yours is the minority view @user1471523931

Well quite but I expect it’s the usual faux naivety