Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

[ThisPinkWyvern]

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified.

The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison.

In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls.

When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

Quite so Eresh.

This

You are right Gallstoned.

Harm does not require attack either. Harm to female people from any male person entering a space they need to be single sex can be in many other forms. Including loss of privacy. And voyeurism, exhibitionism, inappropriate behaviour in any form. And don't forget some female people now self limit themselves to avoid those spaces.

It is not just about attack and it never was. Although, attack remains a strong discussion point because it does happen and is not easily dismissed. While female people's boundaries are very easily and regularly dismissed.

Well no. Stupid laws have always existed and will continue to. People should call them out.

As no one can actually define gender, the concept of 'transitioning' from one to another makes zero sense.

yeh so if you don’t agree with this “group of posters” you are immediately shunned and made to feel like your opinion doesn’t count. I stand by what I said and I’m entitled to my opinion just like the “group”

I have a question for any posters who believe transmen are men. If a transman is sent to prison should they be sent to a mens prison or women's prison?

Strange how for decades and decades it was very possible to police. Until like, the last 10 years. Strange how now we've lost that ability we always had.

And women can usually accurately sex someone at even a quick sideways glance. Women know this.

Blurgh... total lost me there babes... what?

Their lived experience? They've mostly lived as their chromosomal sex. They might not feel comfortable with it for all sorts of reasons (SA, puberty, ND?) but that doesn't mean they are the other sex.
Dress how you like, be what you like but sex is immutable and don't try to claim women's spaces or rights as your own. We need those because we are chromosomally women and therefore smaller/less strong/bear children.
This is the only thing on which o have ever agreed with Trump. I guess even a stopped clock is right once or twice a day.
Your post is a load of waffle. Wordy word soup waffle. And that's being kind to it.

It's not really a matter of being "according to" anybody. Trans-women are men, period. (Or rather no period, because they're men. See above.)

Sorry to get involved in this when there has been so much back and forth already (I have been out), and I don't want Cornflakes to feel singled out at all but--

There is just no way of policing who goes into a toilet unfortunately.

So do we give up then? Because some people do things that are antisocial/ inappropriate/ unlawful and their actions are seemingly uncontrollable do we throw our hands up and say all right then, Go For It?

Most women do not want a man in her toilet. That is a boundary that should not be crossed even if you are not fussed. Women (transmen) nae bither.

Some may feel men in the toilets are fine. And by men I mean men or transwomen, who are also men. Some do feel that way but are not so keen to see them in women's changing rooms. As soon as you (general you) say, "ok, I'll give you the freedom of women's toilets but Grrrr! stay out of the changing rooms" the men will definitely be content and not bother women any more, right? Only remember when some women said "let's give them the word woman, who cares we still have 'female'." With Dr Upton and others, that didn't end well.

What a load of bollocks.
Trans people know their biological sex. I don't personally believe in the concept of gender but don't care if others do.
Trans people might not be happy about it and believe they should have been born the other sex but lots of people have dysphoric feelings. We don't necessarily go along with them.
In the case transpeople, I support them to wear whatever they like, use whatever name they please, love whichever consenting adult they are attracted to and basically live life without fear or persecution.
Where my support ends is the denial of reality which impinges on others rights to clear language, safety, dignity and privacy.

This is Mumsnet - not TRAnet.

In the case transpeople, I support them to wear whatever they like, use whatever name they please, love whichever consenting adult they are attracted to and basically live life without fear or persecution.
Where my support ends is the denial of reality which impinges on others rights to clear language, safety, dignity and privacy

Yep, that's the crux of it for all sane people.
Wear what you want, I don't care
Shag whoever you want- I don't care as long as it's legal
Call yourself by whatever pronoun you want- I don't care but I won't also be butchering the English language so i won't return the pronoun
Pretend you are whatever you want- I don't care as long as I don't have any men in my changing rooms, toiletrs, prisons etc.

Oh, and I have just as much a right to an opinion as anyone else, and if i think you're nuts then that's my perogative and if that hurts your feelings, again, i don't care

Yes, I think gender neutral spaces (as much as I hate the word gender) are definitely useful for transmen.

Something was niggling me at the back of my mind and I've just realised what it was. In heraldry, a wyvern is a kind of snake. I wonder what sort of person would choose pink snake as a username?

It's a euphemism for something, alright.

yeh so if you don’t agree with this “group of posters” you are immediately shunned and made to feel like your opinion doesn’t count. I stand by what I said and I’m entitled to my opinion just like the “group”

And anyone is entitled to call out irrational and hypocritical posts you make too 🤷‍♀️ whether it's one person or many.

That's interesting- I genuinely don't think I'd realise Jamie Raines is female if I didn't already know. Same for Aaron Kimberly.

I'd certainly feel uncomfortable if they walked into a changing room while I was naked, just as I would if a transwoman (most of whom don't pass at all) did.

Oh for goodness sake, the doctors don't just choose a sex for a baby with a dsd! They do genetic testing to find out if they are male or female. And they will be male or female with a disorder of sexual development not a hybrid with bits and pieces of both sexes!

In your opinion it’s irrational that doesn’t make your opinion fact. I don’t agree that all trans men look like women. Or they are all 5ft nothing. Sorry.

But there is. You , I , anyone can challenge a man entering a women's toilets.

Ooh good spot!!

Not if the TRAs have anything to do with it!

... is scientifically incorrect.

They can try and stop me. But I'm a middle aged woman with no fucks left to give and they'll have a fucking job 😃