Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

[ThisPinkWyvern]

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified.

The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison.

In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls.

When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

Trans men are women. And the kindest thing would have been for the people around them to tell them that they will always be women but that they are free to present in whatever way they choose. The trauma comes from having been fed the lie that the world will perceive them as men when they are clearly not.

There is no "Gender Critical Movement" - there are simply millions of people who, correctly believe, that biological sex trumps identity, that no human can change sex, and that single sex spaces, for both women and men ought to be protected.

More rubbish. I truly despair at the anti-science rhetoric some people so confidently insist on.

What fallacious nonsense are they spouting in the plannedparenthood link? My computer won't let me get there because the site can't provide safe access.

I'm as gender critical as anyone but agree that Alexis Blake does make a lot of sense on this issue.

They should be grateful. Surely no one actually wants to use a male toilet, they’re disgusting , urinals stink!

Trans men are women
Trans women are men

Gender critical people are telling clear biological facts.

'We have people born with both male and female sex organs. Using this fact, We can see we have at least three genders, based on biology. It’s really challenging to unpick'

Again, can I suggest that you read more widely and read the writings of evolutionary or developmental biologists or medical experts in the field of categorising sex.

What you are now doing, whether it is your intention or not, is to leverage a group of people's medical conditions (those who are born with differences of sex development, they are not 'intersex' in medical terms) to support gender identity theory. Every person can be categorised as either male or female through the modern testing techniques.

Even those few hundred that people like to leverage for their political gain.

Do you believe that this is appropriate?

'What I find interesting is the rationale based on biology is actually flawed. It isn’t factual.'

There are only two sexes in humans. Within those two sexes there are a huge range of body variations. And no person can change the sex they were born.

The only commonality that has been found in the group of people who declare that they have transgender identities is their philosophical belief. There is nothing that can be diagnosed using biology for transgender identities.

'And then what is interesting is where does society go from there - that is the choice of society, something we have choices that connect to values and beliefs.'

Why should one group's philosophical beliefs and values be prioritised above the needs of female people based on their very established safety needs and what they need to overcome millennia of negative sexist discrimination and oppression?

'This is a useful article:'

It really isn't. You really need to seek out the information given by developmental biologists, evolutionary biologists and medical doctors.

Transmen/boys rarely pass....least not the ones I have come accross in real life.

there is not one documented instance of a human with both a functional ovary and a functional testes

intersex is not a third sex, the vast vast majority of intersex people are either female or male

because humans really are a sexually dimorphic species, male and female, defined on the ability of each having developed on a pathway to produce small motile gametes (male) or large immobile gametes (female)

every single human being now and in our evolutionary history has been created from sexual reproduction, the fusing of a sperm and an egg

zero exceptions, ever

there are only two sexes

there is ZERO evidence that any human being ever now or in our evolutionary history has changed from a functional male to female or vice versa

stop with your nonsense

No the determination of whether you are male or female is whether you have a Y chromosome.

Male genitalia are just the obvious expression of that.

Oh, OP, you so funny!

You determine sex by chromosomes not by the presence of a penis. Obviously it's an easy way to tell when a baby is born.

This 100% 👏

Daisymae to understand more clearly how this person is manipulating you to get what he wants, change the pronouns to align with reality.

She calls herself a guest in a woman’s space- saying although she uses woman’s toilets, she does everything to ensure no one is uncomfortable and that her ‘comfort’ should never overtake that of a biological woman in their space.

becomes:

He calls himself a guest in a woman’s space- saying although he uses woman’s toilets, he does everything to ensure no one is uncomfortable and that his ‘comfort’ should never overtake that of a biological woman in their space.

Creepy, right? Don't fall for it. He is a man and he does not belong in women's spaces.

Where is this Gender Critical Movement? How can I join it?

Whatever you’re on about, it’s a fact that transmen are biological women.

Iol I can’t even be arsed to pick apart that level of emotional hyperbole utter nonsense! How did I know that they’d start with “but intersex” further down (they always do) I mean it’s embarrassing really! Ppl can change sex you say? Yeah come back when you can explan how the pelvis on the left magically becomes the one on the right

You can’t join because IT DOESN’T EXIST contrary to what the OP claims.

Once again only toddlers get to have tantrums if people don’t validate their every move.

Perhaps if people’s “lived experience” wasn’t steeped in regression, sexism and homophobia then maybe people wouldn’t “deny” it so much - it NOBODY has the right to have everyone around them validate their beliefs. Nobody. This is entirely down the trans people to manage their own identity not have everyone around them do it for them. It’s a VERY bad way of living to always rely on others when it comes to feelings

But the overwhelming majority of humans fit into either one of two sex categories which are easily distinguishable at birth. Yes, there are some rare instances where the body doesn't develop as expected but this is considered a disorder and is treated as such.

Elsewhere in nature, if it was as common for species to change development path as you claim then we would have chaos. Farming works precisely because its possible to predict how a particular plant or animal will develop from its genetic material.

Well yes. Because a group of male people who demand that they get to stay in the female single sex spaces understood that if they appear moderate that a larger % of female people will agree with them and allow them the access they demand. And they demand it, they won't take no for an answer.

Look at how those who support Dr Upton in the NHS Fife court case spoke about Upton. They focused on Upton's needs and thought that Upton while at work, was probably 'moderate'. But anyone listening to Upton's testimony, or reading it (and I suggest you read it if you haven't) can see that when Upton was even mildly rejected by Sandie Peggie leaving the changing room and waiting for Upton to finish, Upton started to collect notes on Sandie because Sandie was non-compliant.

For a while, women thought Brianna Wu was a great ally. But certainly Wu followed the new script of being that ally, until women told Wu that Wu should never be using the female single sex spaces. Then came the 'but I am unsafe in the men's' and then when women still rejected this claim, Wu become abusive.

Hayton is another. Hayton eventually left MN after making posts about how the hierarchy of female power was based on breast size.

You don't have to dig very deeply to find that the male people that seem to be recommended by people as 'being a moderate voice' are still not a moderate voice. They are trying to wheedle their own access into female single sex spaces at the expense of their community and the only real difference that becomes clear over time is that they simply don't shout their abuse. But they still end up abusing the women that reject them.

I have watched this play out over and over and over. We have even had those types of male posters start threads about how they agree that a group of male trans people should be kept out but it always turns out that they will stay using the spaces themselves. But they use the FWR board to trial their arguments to see what reactions they get.

Well, I know that. I’m not dim. I was being sarcastic.

I notice that the vote is 95% YABU. I think that, say, five or six years ago, it would have been quite a lot lower than that. It’s down to the sterling (if incoherent) rantings from people like the OP that many eyes have been opened and this idiocy is accurately perceived to be the utter nonsense that it is.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'

So a personality then?

Yeah we all have them mate. And nobody has to like or validate yours

The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis

The fact the OP defines girls as having lack of a penis” says it all really.

SO misogynistic. It's such a tell.

5 or 6 years ago this thread would have been deleted or moved to FWR