Scared of what labour will do

[Wantachangefor2024]

Is anyone else terrified of what labour will enforce. The tax on farmers. Will they means test pip? Will they tax state pension more? What else will they do and where will it all end. They ruthlessly without no care took away the winter fuel allowance. Means testing and taxing state pension would massively impact my family

@Rummly it's all part of the mix. And for some it might feel like the case anyway

Reynolds and others have been heavily criticised, did you miss the fact Labour have lost 2 ministers already?
Reynold may still go too.

Reeves has been torn apart as well, the target of some very misogynistic abuse, Jess Phillips too.... imho worse than any Tory got, Truss aside.

I'm not really getting what you re on about.....

I responded to point out that this imbalance in the UK tax system, which is very top heavy and precarious, is far more imbalanced and top-heavy than it used to be. Your comment said there have always been low earners, which is true, but didn't acknowledge that low and middle earners pay proportionately much less of the overall tax bill than they ever have, so things are not the same as they have always been. It is a relatively new phenomenon that such a small proportion of working-age people even pay sufficient tax to cover their own costs to the state over their lifetime let alone make a net contribution. This leaves an ever-smaller proportion of people to pay for the majority of the population and yet receiving appalling services in return for their very high tax contributions so they are understandably fed up of it.

The lack of recognition of the fact that the UK tax system is now very unbalanced and that it is not sustainable because higher earners are now penalised so heavily that many are retiring early/ cutting their hours/ emigrating, is a big problem, as it is completely reliant on these people propping it up. Everybody needs to understand that in order to have the level of public services that the UK population seems to desire everyone will have to start paying their fair share i.e. lower and middle earners will have to pay a much higher percentage of tax on their earnings, as they do in other European countries, and no politicians having the courage to speak up about this despite it being an indisputable mathematical fact.

This is why the can gets kicked down the road with unsustainable borrowing, failing services and also insufficient investment in skills and infrastructure and technology that would actually raise productivity and therefore living standards, creating the current doom loop. Unless politicians level with the general public about the mathematical impossibility of them having the services they desire without them paying more tax themselves rather than expecting "the rich" to pay for everything for them then the doom loop of falling living standards will continue.

A PP commented that I was criticising Labour but against Labour-critical threads. So I pointed out that I was commenting on the spate of extreme, apocalyptic thread titles and suggesting that they become a bit irksome. But that I see topical threads criticising Labour for dodgy behaviour or particular failures as different.

You tried to minimise Reynolds’s fibbing. That’s an example of why those sorts of subjects deserve a good outing.

So I pointed out that I was commenting on the spate of extreme, apocalyptic thread titles and suggesting that they become a bit irksome.

All part of the mix

No i didn't...... i said "would it have made any difference?" & that i acknowledge your point on hypocrisy.
I then went on to say he still may resign... & that he and others have been flamed in the media, which started the moment Labour got in, with their expenses debacle.

If you want engagement, which has been a problem for you in the past...then at least take on board what is written?

There is absolutely no suggestion that welfare will be "abolished" for people with long term health conditions. Reform, yes. Cuts, maybe. Abolition, no.

I agree that it is shameful to see Labour targeting the most vulnerable, but let's wait and see what green paper sets out.

You clearly haven't lived through as many Tory governments as me then. They're not called the "nasty party" for nothing. I saw people's lives literally ripped apart, in every possible sense, because of Thatcher's poll tax. I saw 16% interest rates on mortgages and swathes of ordinary people's homes repossessed - the very people the Tories proclaim so vociferously to stand for. I saw whole communities die and people taking their own lives. I've seen the disabled hounded to the grave by Tory Government inquisitors. The Tories stock answer to everything, whether it's necessary or not, is to cut essential services to the bone and to terrorise the disabled, amongst other nefarious policies. If the last 14 years hasn't proved this to you then you must be very rich or living under a fucking rock. I and many others have spent half their lives being "terrified" because of Tory Government policies.

According to most on here, the times of 16% interest rates were the good times when 'boomers' bought houses with one low salary and the high interest rates were just a minor thing, loads of threads stating this crop up all the while.

It just didn't feel affordable at the time Mespher because 16% interest rates on the maximum I could borrow on £18k pa was about 2/3rds of my after tax income. And I was relatively well paid for the the UK, but earing only half what I had earned for a similar job in the USA six weeks before. The UK is very badly paid by international Anglophone standards.

According to people who weren’t born then. Inflation at 24%, interest rates at 10.75% and basic rate income tax of 33% with another 9% NI on top is a very strange state of affairs to describe as “good times”. The only thing remotely good thing about them was the lack of amateur landlords with mortgages on their property and fair rent determined by legislation with the right of appeal by tenants.

@Wantachangefor2024
"I never felt anxiety before over a governments decisions and I really feel under labour we could see cuts far greater than we’ve ever seen"

With the greatest of respect-were you paying attention when the Tories were in power?

Endlessly bouncing back 'the Tories were worse' as many have on this thread is not addressing the op's question.
Is it deliberate?
The OP is concerned about where we are going right here and now. She doesn't want to reflect on the last 14 years.
For what it's worth, I used to own a business and if I still owned it, I would without a doubt be more concerned now than I ever was under the Tories. Of course, in the eyes of a lot of Labour fans, business ( which pays for the public sector) is bad so my business is irrelevant.
I am still aghast at the policies Labour are getting away with tbh. If the Tories had implemented some of them the very posters who are nodding sagely about grown-uos being in chargexwoukd be shouting from the rooftops.
I find it utterly bizarre to be honest.

so our goverment who we (the people) elected to rule our country and make big decisions on what is best for us wants us to think of the small boats/all immigrants as illegal (per your post)

Ok so they obviously don't want them here. Otherwise why do they want voters to think badly of them.

So the goverment does not want them here and you said yourself the country is full so surely discouraging them is what we want.

I mean if our country is full surely common sense says we've taken as many as we can cope with now so sorry that's it. Not sure what is 'thick' about that.

Did you or someone close to you come across on a small boat that you are defending them so much? Else why are you encouraging more when in your own words 'the country is full'

Mumsnet is full of threads with people suffering from eviction, temporary accomodation, being humiliated because they have to use food banks, having their child with mental health issues but can't access help, having an elderly parent ill and being unable to get an ambulance or a care home.

You're right though. We should keep taking in more people by whatever means they arrive.

A few years ago I donated quite a few thousand to various dog charities. Why because I like dogs and I could afford it. Now I donate less (or actually at the moment not at all). Why? I still like dogs. I still want to help them but I am struggling myself. You can't help others when you are depleted yourself.

However you have given me hope as according to you the goverment is actually doing all sorts to stop immigrants that I didn't know about so that has cheered me up. I thought our goverment was pretty spineless and not looking after the interests of their citizens but maybe they are tougher than I gave them credit for. So good news.

Agree with both of you
@YouLookFabulousDarlingFabulous
@Katypp

What policies? WFA aside, which was just silly.

I think whoever got in, would still face the economic hurdles Reeves faces, un funded compensation bills, independent review body pay rises, employee NI cuts... increasing defence spend... NHS waiting lists... public services collapsing.

All need vast amounts of public money, that money has to be raised either through borrowing or taxes.... it cannot wait for long term growth, something which escaped the Tories in over 14 years.

Same @Katypp has it re business and the responses on here

Hunt must wake up every morning heaving a sigh of relief that he’s no longer chancellor. It’s beyond naive to think the economic situation would be any different regardless of the colour of government. It’s very interesting that the opposition presents no alternative policies. They were offering tax cuts, ffs. Where were they planning to find the money for those?

I think Hunt wakes up every morning and laughs his arse off at the incompetence of the current Chancellor.

@Katypp "I am still aghast at the policies Labour are getting away with tbh. If the Tories had implemented some of them the very posters who are nodding sagely about grown-uos being in chargexwoukd be shouting from the rooftops."

Like what? Apart VAT on private schools and IT on high value farms-which have been discussed endlessly already? And I don't quite understand what you mean by "getting away with" . You seem to be implying some sort of clandestine policy by stealth.....

I doubt it. He must be incredibly relieved not to be faced with breaking his manifesto promises and looking equally incompetent. I doubt anyone would appear competent in the face of this mess.

For the first time ever I feel as if the government hates me.

Some of her decisions haven't been great

@Hamilton6382 "For the first time ever I feel as if the government hates me"

Why?

Has anyone been proven to lie on their CV as much as Reeves?