To think that dd should take some things less seriously

[CosyRubyDreamer]

dd (16) has a tendency to take things literally (I have always suspected her to be neurodivergent and have been open to her about it, but there is just no need for a diagnosis). But this is besides the point.

She is a very fair person and really emphasizes on being kind with words and I'm proud of her. However, she struggles to fit in with most of the teenagers at her school and wider circle because of that.

For example, she ghosted a guy she was gonna date and a friend because they jokingly told someone to kill themselves as part of banter. dd privately texted them separately telling them why they shouldn't say that and tried to make them promise not to say anything like that before. They both said something along the lines of " are you the type to cry at the movies". She ended up losing a friendship and potential relationship. They are both nice to her normally and good friends.

While I wholeheartedly agree with dd and am proud of her for calling them out, I have told her that maybe she should let things slide next time. I don't want her to get left out.

@toomuchfaff

I can assure you that for a teenage girl with low self esteem, meeting new people is very far from easy.

I'm not asking her to get on board with her friends' decisions, just advising her that sometimes you have to turn a blind eye or you risk ending up with no friends at all.

When she's older and she has a wider circle of acquaintances she will have the luxury of picking and choosing. But while she's at school and spends every day with the same group of people, I think it's important she doesn't cut her nose off to spite her face. Even if it is done with the best of intentions.

And? Why aren't you encouraging your daughter to be kind? You sound like a bully yourself.

If you think this is acceptable, then you just show yourself up as an awful person. WTH. Your poor daughter.

At what cost does she accept bullying behaviour from other people just to fit in? And when they start offering her drink or drugs, does she go along with that too? The examples you gave are horrible mean girl behaviours, I’d be proud of my daughter distancing herself and encouraging other avenues for friendship, not suggesting she lowers her standards for popularity with a group who seem pretty unpleasant.

Is she 16 or 18?

This is starting to sound like a bot post.

I mean it's better to be alone than hanging out with arseholes isn't it? Obviously all teens are prone to say dumb stuff sometimes but none of your examples sound like harmless jokes to me, they sound a mean bunch.

This is nasty bullying behavior, as is telling someone to kill themselves. Some teenagers don't realise this and think it's funny. They're wrong. Your daughter is more mature and thinks of the feelings of the people being bullied. It's something you should value in her, not criticise her for.

Maybe, but noone would reportit! It is very very standard in gaming culture. Not saying that's right, but it is!

OP she's likely to struggle to fit in if she's autistic (which does sound quite possible). If it's not from being highly moral, extremely fair, not bantering or very literal then it'll be because she is extremely honest, unwilling to bend to peer pressure, easily overwhelmed or something else that is typical of ASD. Being social is a struggle when you see the world slightly differently from everyone else, especially at secondary school.

I disagree with others that she is much more emotionally intelligent than her peers and would suspect that she just sees things in a much more black and white way - they're good or they're bad. We are taught from young that mean = bad and that's where she's at. She doesn't get the nuance of banter (although this does sound like the banter might be going too far).

How can you think there is no need for a diagnosis? You're doing her a disservice IMO even if it's only so she understands herself better. If it was any other disability would you tell her it didn't need diagnosing? I think your own prejudices are at play here tbh.

I also have to wonder how much influence you had over the "joint" decision of no assessment and how much of your thinking was driven by "labelling " and popularity.

If she is neurodivergent then we often have a strong sense of what's right and wrong.

She shouldn't have to mould herself to fit in with idiots who say things like that. I do not find it funny either to tell someone to kill themselves even in jokes.

As her parent, I feel you should be applauding her for being true to herself and standing up for what's right surely?

ND people mask as it is. I don't mask anymore to a certain degree as why should I? And why should your daughter. Also why the no need for a diagnosis? It could help her im the long run if she is.

Maybe she just needs to find friends like her and she will do one day. It's part of growing up, finding like minded people.

Just support her and talk to her about these things without judgement. She will find her way.

Fair play to your daughter. She clearly knows her morals and boundaries and the type of people she wants to be associated with. I’d be proud if this was my daughter. Usually people are on here posting about their children being in relationships with awful people, you seem a bit desperate for her to have a relationship

Is there really no one similar to her in the whole class?
That would surprise me.A lot of teenagers are really switched on about the use of language nowadays.

This.
I can't get the 'First they came for the socialists ....' out of my head
I'll be her friend any day 🥰

What a terrible message you’re sending to your daughter, that fitting in and her “reputation” is more important than the courage to stand up for what she believes in. I’m glad my parents gave me the opposite message to always be myself and believe in my convictions. It’s served me better in life than shrinking myself for other people’s benefit.

I do talk to her about possible ASD so she does understand herself and neurodivergence. I agree with you about the bit regarding the emotional intelligence

I think it’s not so much about taking things less seriously, but about considering that different people have different dynamics in their friendships and that context is important.

I have a very dark sense of humour and so do my two closest mates. The other week I was messaging them to moan about being stuck in an outpatients waiting room with some incredibly annoying people and my friend replied “Well I think you’re just going to have to perpetrate a mass shooting and then turn the gun on yourself”.

Clearly that would not be appropriate to say to a stranger. It would also not be appropriate to say to someone who was genuinely upset about something or someone whose sense of humour you weren’t sure about. If someone said that in certain contexts or to certain people, it would be awful and they should be pulled up on it. But for my friend to say it to me in the context of our WhatsApp chat about a minor annoyance, it was totally fine and made me laugh. And I’d certainly have given someone short shrift if they’d given us a preachy reprimand about it!

If grasping those contexts is the sort of thing your DD struggles with, then I don’t necessarily think it’s about her having to take things less seriously. I think it’s more that she is obviously a very earnest kind of person who will always be happier around people who are similar to her and have a more straightforward, non-sarcastic, dynamic.

It isn’t ‘emotionally intelligent’ to ignore context and relationship dynamics when considering someone’s words or behaviour.

@ItGhoul Agree entirely with this. The sort of things I might say to certain friends I would never say to others.

Me too!!
I smell BS

Sounds like she has boundaries and standards. She has to learn herself to compromise if she ends up friendless. But for now her approach sounds fine to me.

I was the undiagnosed, neurodivergent teen who lost a load of friends because I held very strong boundaries and principles. Secondary school was tough, but I'm in my 30s now and I'm fine. I have friends, I socialise etc.

Also I know you think diagnosis isn't necessary but... My mum thought the same thing. And it absolutely ruined my mental health because without a diagnosis, there was no support to fall back on as social pressures and expectations increased as I got closer to uni/working age. I got diagnosed at 28, and in all honesty the doctors letter to my workplace about reasonable adjustments made working so much easier.

I worked in a nursery , and it allowed me to go to the staffroom if I was dysregulated and needed a few minutes to calm down, rather then wait for lunch. It also meant that I could wear earplugs to dampen sensory input, as long as I attached a cord so that if one fell out it fell on my chest rather than God knows where.

So how far should she go with turning a blind eye? How far should she go to fit in?

When is the banter not banter?

And for a teenage girl with low self esteem, can't possibly think that could turn out badly at all.

You do you, by all means, but I think your pushing her to "turn a blind eye" is worse than her black and white good vs bad is far better for her mental health. How terrible will she feel when her "turning a blind eye" results in someone else being upset.

Wtf is wrong with you? Telling someone to kill themselves is never acceptable 'banter'. You are the one who needs to sort yourself out, your DD is a decent human being with boundaries, good people do not joke about things like that, she does not need people like that in her life

I’ve found the people who say it for banter are the same people who say it seriously, It’s always “banter” until it’s not anymore. Good on your daughter for standing up for what’s right.

I've only read the first few posts from the OP, but I think it's hypocritical to ask her to manage a neuro diverse trait (responding in black and white) when you're also denying her a formal diagnosis and therefore the proper tools for coping with these situations. Pick a lane.