To think that dd should take some things less seriously

[CosyRubyDreamer]

dd (16) has a tendency to take things literally (I have always suspected her to be neurodivergent and have been open to her about it, but there is just no need for a diagnosis). But this is besides the point.

She is a very fair person and really emphasizes on being kind with words and I'm proud of her. However, she struggles to fit in with most of the teenagers at her school and wider circle because of that.

For example, she ghosted a guy she was gonna date and a friend because they jokingly told someone to kill themselves as part of banter. dd privately texted them separately telling them why they shouldn't say that and tried to make them promise not to say anything like that before. They both said something along the lines of " are you the type to cry at the movies". She ended up losing a friendship and potential relationship. They are both nice to her normally and good friends.

While I wholeheartedly agree with dd and am proud of her for calling them out, I have told her that maybe she should let things slide next time. I don't want her to get left out.

Why do you think she may be neurodivergent (just because she stood up for someone who was bullied), and if you’ve thought this for a while why haven’t you had her referred for assessment? If she is autistic she deserves to know and deserves the support that she could receive. Autism is a disability and if diagnosed she would be classed as disabled and therefore be protected under legislation eg in education and employment. Why would you not want this for her if relevant? It sounds like you don’t need her diagnosed because YOU wouldn’t benefit from this. But what about her? As she matures, if she is indeed a young autistic woman, she will start to find certain aspects of life more and more challenging and this could begin to affect her mental health significantly. If she isn’t assessed now, as a “child”, do you realise how difficult it is to access referral/assessment as an adult?
Stop being selfish.

I have discussed it with her and the consensus is its not necessary.

You should be proud of her for standing by her values and being prepared to lose (toxic) friendships not ask her to try fit in with people who speak like that

I am proud of her I just don't want her to get ridiculed by kids her age

So she has standards? And she isn't prepared to compromise on those standards just to fit in? Good for her.

I would be proud of her for standing up against people saying awful things like that! There may be other people in the wider group who agree with her and may approach her now and make friends with her on the basis that she’s shown herself to be a really decent person. Something similiar happened to my DD and when she eventually found the courage to call someone out for their cruel comments, she found a lot of support from unexpected corners of the class. I understand wanting your DD to have friends but those comments were worth standing up against.

How do you actually know this about these kids? It's incredibly naive to think you know them that well. My DD has had friends that seemed really nice then find out a couple years later they're perfectly capable of nasty cruel behaviour towards other kids, not DD. You don't know these kids well enough to be certain they're not capable of telling some vulnerable to go kill themselves.

Even if they are genuinely nice kids it's highly unlikely they're capable of always knowing when the kid they're saying these things to is vulnerable. Never heard of masking? Never heard of kids that seem fine and happy killing themselves? This isn't banter and it's not ok ever. My friends neice killed herself, she seemed perfectly happy, sociable, confident, no one had any idea she was vulnerable, absolutely no one, until she killed herself. To many kids commit suicide and having an adult excuse this as banter is really fucked up.

Have you and your DD discussed all of the points that @Skynorth raises?

There are many, many situations where having an official diagnosis is beneficial, providing protection and preventing discrimination.

Your DD may not need the protection now, but you're already describing difficulties with her peer group. Her unerring sense of justice could be really difficult for her in the workplace where BS and arseholes are around every corner.

So many people blithely say they "don't need a label" without actually understanding what the so-called "label" provides.

ND women have a REALLY hard time, and very often burn out by the time they reach their 40s, if not sooner. It's also much more difficult for an autistic person to find work and progress in the same way as an NT person.

Also, and really importantly, if she changes her mind, she's going to find the adult system for diagnosis is absolutely appalling. In some postcodes the wait for a diagnosis is more than 10 years and with certain NHS changes pending, it's anticipated to get worse.

If you're having concerns like this now, it really underlines how and why a diagnosis might help her.

I'm an autistic/ADHD woman who was diagnosed later - I can't tell you the difference it would have made to me if I'd been diagnosed in my teens. Would have saved a lifetime of pain. Genuinely.

I'm with your daughter on this.
You don't sound very supportive of her.

I am with her intentions but in reality what she did would not be a sustainable way for both her reputations and how she makes friends

push

Again, you've illustrated that you don't support her choices. Perhaps she'd rather have less friends than bullying or nasty ones. She'll (probably) meet her people eventually and she'll be glad she waited for decent ones.

I mean like she doesn't have to be friends but she can like remain friendly

'Banter' was always my least favourite phrase when I was teaching. It's always at someone's expense and to me a poor excuse for bullying. It's often ongoing and not simply a one off phrase, usually targets the same individual or group of individuals, hence bullying.

I think your daughter is great for calling it out. I would rather have a child stand up for others and recognise this, than a child who is popular as they go along with it and willingly upset another individual.

You say the friends 'probably' wouldn't message her things saying to kill herself but how to you really know? Also would you be happy having her send messages like that to people? I would be questioning her behaviour if she did rather than trying to encourage her to do this to 'fit in'.

If your daughter is happy then leave her be. She will find her own group of friends who don't need to engage in this. They might not be the 'popular' gang but does that matter to her (as to me this is the feeling I get from you about her missing out socially).

If she is autistic she deserves to know and deserves the support that she could receive.

I totally agree with this as someone who discovered late in life I wish I had been given the language, the tools, the coping strategies instead of feeling an immense failure and burning out due to trying so hard.

My kosher is like you, I think she knew but didn't want the label, but she didn't hp me in the long term.

I also wonder if you are on the spectrum too, you seem very rigid in your concerns, beliefs and the way you've dealt with this situation.

Probably wouldn’t be enough for me.

I'd be extremely cautious teaching her and conditioning her to tolerate toxicity and abuse.
If your DD is struggling socially the last thing you want to do is try end convince her to go against her gut instincts on people.

It is often difficult for ND people to know who to trust and they can become involved in abusive situations.

Also be prepared that she might pursue a diagnosis in the future to help her with her struggles.

Why? Why remain friendly to awful people?

Do you tolerate abusive people in your life to "keep the peace" at all costs?

You need to question your own reactions and fears.

and tried to make them promise not to say anything like that

She needs to understand that telling someone not to do something, doesn't make it happen

She didn't ghost them , you're using that word incorrectly

She'll learn , as she gets older, who she wants to be ....atm she's quite intense and moral, which isn't "cool"

You sound quite immature in your own approaches towards friendships. That's not an insult, I mean fearful of voicing opinions and integrity that actually matter. The thing is to about go it in the right way. When people say thing like 'kill yourself" for example . Not when someone makes a mistimed but ultimately harmless joke.

You remind me of my mother. She didn't get that I simply didn't care about being popular at school and fitting in for its own sake. What's fun about hanging around with people you really don't get on with for the sake of having more pals? I've always been myself and had great friends.

You're saying she should have shut up to get on with a boy.

I think she sounds to have better boundaries than you. I would have a look at your own motivations here. Exercising boundaries, principles and how to make a point politely as well as get on with people is far more important than just laughing anything off.

One - you are completely unreasonable and your daughter was absolutely right to end this friendship as that is not banter and is disgusting.
Two - you are also unreasonable not to get her tested if you believe she's ND. At 16 you don't know what's best for you and as someone who didn't get diagnosed till they were 30 I'd snap someone's hand off to go back and be diagnosed young. Perhaps you should consider that being ND is potentially genetic and so if you think of well that's normal or I cope with that doesn't mean your daughter will.

This is what i meant; she is too moral at times and this drives people away from her

OP do you perhaps have any other examples? This person isn't really someone she needs around and she was right to push him away and tell him why, but it may be based on a wider pattern.

It is all mainly about words people use-- like jokingly calling someone a "fatty" and joking about acne, sweat, etc.

Again NOT jokes. These words do a massive amount of harm. You've apparently reached adulthood without realising that calling people fat, making fun of their acne and suggesting they kill themself aren't jokes? Not being nasty to other people in the minimum standard for friends, it's not too moral to be disgusted by people that target others like this. I'd never be friend's with anyone who excused bullying as jokes and banter. You still have a whole heap of growing up to do yourself. Your DDs example is a good one. Your daughter unlike you has standards. You on the other hand are one of those parents who think it's ok for others to hurt and bully kids with nasty words because banter.