To feel my school friends held me back ?

[OrganicPlane]

I went to a middle class, non mainstream school and the girls I went to school with were all very immature, lacking in confidence and precious. All their mothers knew each other - they were teachers.

They seemed to hate big when I - previously fat, lost weight and gained more confidence.

They almost wore their lack of confidence as a badge of honour :

”Oh looooook!!! I can’t even go and ask for something in a shoooopppp!” (Aged 20)

i have to say I’m only slightly exaggerating with the above example

I feel the girls I went to school with did shape my personality a bit and it’s been hard to break free/gain confidence. AIBU?

I think this is the nub of your issues, OrganicPlane and some of the unkind replies on here are not taking this into account.

To a great extent, as children we are 'trained' by our parents (usually mothers for girls) to be the child they want. We go along with it because we instinctively want our parents approval because in primitive times, we would just be abandoned otherwise.

So it sounds to me that your mother was very old fashioned and wanted a quiet 'girly' girl, obedient and helpful, not challenging or difficult and sent you to a school that probably did not encourage independence and risk taking. Your fellow pupils probably had similar backgrounds and you most likely reinforced each other because you didn't know better. The fears that you/they developed were not typical of teenage girls of your time - much more like something in the 50s or even earlier. Just to put it in context, the Equal Pay Act was passed in 1970, although it wasn't enacted until then end of 1975.

Our childhood/teenage influences have a huge effect on our adult lives, whether we continue on similar paths or consciously decide to break free. Most of us plod on, busy in our lives, and don't spend much time thinking about these things unless something happens - and then the whole lot comes rushing out into the cold light of day.

Organic Plane, for what it's worth, I think that you are probably blaming your fellow pupils for holding you back when it is very likely to have been your entire childhood/teenage experience, including the school itself. My advice would be to try to find some counselling - almost impossible to find on the NHS, but if you can't afford it, maybe a charity like MIND can help. It might just help you to make sense of how you have arrived at where you are. Good luck!

Your childhood friends were kids themselves OP. It’s not on them to propel you forward, mold you in the correct way etc. You were failed by your parents and although you recognise that in your posts you still seem to attribute the ‘blame’ at how you turned out to your friends. There’s a disconnect there - easier to blame external factors than admit that your parents treated you that way, because that hurts more?

This has clearly been on your mind for decades, would be worth speaking to someone to unpick.

Yes I can remember if ever my school friends saw me trying to break out of the ‘mould’ in any way - I was being ‘fake’ - apparently

As you say...jesus wept.

Thanks so much - this response is excellent.

i don’t mind the unkind replies though - they give me the kick up backside I need !

You’ve hit so many nails on the head in this post - which I’ll address in a minute - but just genuinely wondered - does any parent want a child who’s challenging and difficult?

I’m the same age as you roughly op: and I wanted to respond to this question: ‘- but just genuinely wondered - does any parent want a child who’s challenging and difficult?’

as a parent now, I love having a ‘difficult’ daughter (she’s 18 now, so the sort of age that sounds formative for you). She’s not keen to please as I was and indeed still am. She’s driven by what works for her and if that doesn’t work for everyone she’ll be pleasant but is unbothered. She doesn’t do what I’d suggest. all the time, but she makes choices that work for her. It’s a revelation to me that she can operate that way and has helped me be more (positively) selfish. and certainly there have been times when this has made parenting harder (she’s not motivated by making teachers like her for example!) overall I’ve known it’s a bloody good thing.

But my socialisation is much more to please others; do the ‘right thing’, be nice etc. like yours was I guess

Right I wanted specifically to come back to this post as I think it’s hit the nail on the head regarding so many aspects of my life.

Yes - you’re right - the school I went to ABSOLUTELY did not encourage independence. It was a strict religious school - when I said to my mum at age 19 that I didn’t like the school she put on a very bitter, disapproving voice and said something like

“you shouldn’t say that - I’M the religious one” (my Dad wasn’t)

So this shows that she took my dislike of the school very personally - thinking it was a criticism of her personally - and - worryingly I think - she can’t seem to accept that other people are entitled to their own opinions

With respect, having a 'feisty' daughter is not the same as a truly difficult child. My brother was such a PIA that he made my parents cry and destroyed the family unit. He was mentally unwell.

The other thing is - I totally agree with you that it was indeed my entire childhood experience that was at fault - not just my friends - I thought it was a terrible school - and yes the friendship group reinforced each other. One even said that we all lacked confidence because of the way our parents had treated us

@Illegally18 Well, sure - but does the op sound like a child who destroyed the family unit, or one who grew up in a challenging family? A child whose alcoholic mother was trying to control her friendships at 20 doesn’t sound like they created all the issues to me.

One other thing.

As I say - my school was a very predominantly middle class school - with most children’s parents being teachers and all knowing each other.

When I was around 15 or so - I was desperate to leave this stifling school and asked my parents on two separate occasions if I could go to two other schools - but what was notable about these schools was that they were both in deprived areas with lower than average results.

I think the reason I wanted to go to these particular schools is that my parents were middle class, these schools were ‘working class’ (for wont of a better expression) and I wouldn’t know anyone there - I could just make a fresh start and ‘get on with it’

You're absolutely right, but I was responding to you, and not the Op.

I saw a Facebook pic of three of these friends together last year at a get together captioned - “it’s great we’re still in touch - we’ve known each other since nursery” - etc ..

all I could think of was

”the new remake of Charlie’s Angels looks shit”

Why are you still going on?? You’re being bizarre now.

Being a challenging and difficult person myself, I think I would have become very bored with my own children if they had been obedient and quiet. 😊

That said though, they were (to me), normal, noisy, messy, demanding children who actually did what they were told most of the time and we had a lot of fun times with them. We encouraged adventurous behaviour, questioning, debate and argument - making life difficult sometimes when they tied us up in knots - but, I think, well prepared for life as adults. (Manners was a big part of their upbringing, so they were never rude, particularly in school and to adults).

Even then, I was very aware of disproval of others - but in High School, their ability to speak up for themselves (or others) was often complimented by teachers.

So different from what you experienced, OrganicPlane and that is sad. Yes, my children were challenging, exhausting and at times difficult and I would not have changed our parenting experience because they are now well rounded, working adults, making their way in the world.

It sounds like you made a great family life for your children. ❤️

But this is the thing - my mum criticised me for being ‘shy’ - but when I said that I honestly thought e.g. when I was 19 I admitted I’d never liked my school - and bitterly scolded me taking my dislike of the school as a personal criticism!

Another thing that happened was this / just before Xmas when I was 19 - I can remember my mum saying to me something like

“there’s a carol service at church - it epuld be nice if you went.” - just for context - I hadn’t been for about 18 months regularly due to having a Sunday job.

i said “well no, I’ve left school now and don’t want to go back into that community” -

just fyi the church and school were closely
connected

but then - and looking back now as a 52 year old I think it’s terribly sad - before she said anything I immediately then followed up by saying “oh no its fine then .. I’ll go”

my mum said “no you don’t have to - there’s obviously people you don’t want to see” - but she said this in such a bitter tone with no eye contact that it was clear she 100% didn’t approve

It’s so sad that I just rolled over ….I think it’s a sign that she failed me

you see I strongly feel j wasn’t naturally shy - j was naturally outspoken - but she shouted me down

Sorry my above post is in response to @PensionedCruiser - I meant to quote

This is also quite telling -

just before GCSEs - mum got me an interview with a boarding school - but didn’t tell me until I accidentally found out the day before - now this is an instance where I

put my foot down
flatly and very vocally refused to go

My mum even got her friend in to talk to as that day was so stressful and it’s her fried that said to cancel the appointment with the school

later on I could hear my mum saying uk my dad in a very cold, bitter voice -

”we just accepted our education didn’t we?”

but what my mum was too stupid to realise was - you’re not comparing like with like

Just to say - objectively speaking I think this boarding school was a genuinely good school so no disrespect to the school but going there would’ve have suited either my circumstances of personality and and should’ve known that as a parent ! Surely when a child is 16 a parent should be playing to their child’s strengths?

The other thing is my mum called me

‘shy’ but also

”you were a very difficult child”

surely this is contradiction? Shy people aren’t difficult normally cos they’re too afraid of criticism

she also used to call me spoilt

but shy and spoilt to my age different

shy to me suggests sensitive

when you think if a spoilt person you think of someone who lacks sensitivity

It's called projecting. Quite often mothers (usually mothers) see non existent qualities in their children that they themselves have. For instance, I was constantly berated for being selfish - I always accepted that I was, until in my 40s when a close friend told me that I was the least selfish person she knew. Guess who was really selfish!

Ah sorry you experienced this.

Selfish was one of the things my mum called me as well. I totally believed it and internalised it

sorry for all my typing errors above - I’m sure you can get the gist!

I was out on a walk last night and was thinking about the significance of this post again - it’s so spot on - I think there’s so much accuracy in it.

Just a couple of things that might (or might not be) different from the impression you may have of my upbringing. You’re right in that she wanted me to be obedient and quiet I think ..BUT i definitely wasn’t ‘girly’ - I was a fat, tomboyish girl and my mum used to call me clumsy.

i think there some truth in you saying that my mum was old fashioned - but - and this may surprise you - and was a very successful full time career woman - back to work straight after I was born - very unusual I think for a woman who had her first baby in 1972! But she was ‘old fashioned’ I suppose in that even in her 50s she was a proper Daddy’s girl - both her parents were alive and well until my mum was 56 - she pandered to her parents - who lived 70 miles away - so much!

But I totally agree with you that all our parents sent us to a school that didn’t encourage independence - the mothers used to tell their kids off sharply if they lost interest in church etc

She sounds quite similar to my mother. I wasn't a girly girl, also fat, clumsy and a tomboy to boot. Ribbons would not stay in my hair and frills looked hideous on me. Pastel colours (pink in particular) did not suit at all. I discovered shocking pink and bright purple in my 30s and I've never looked back 😎