To think academic success is 90% of the time down to the parents

[TameSacha]

Sparked by a conversation I had at the school gates last week about how another parent wouldn’t be bothering with half term homework (which was making a collage).

I have DS8 and DD6. I read with each of them daily (they read to me and vice versa, takes about ten minutes per child), we do five minutes on their maths apps each day, and things like times tables songs in the car. We try to do at least one educational trip a term that matches with what one of them is learning about (think looking at and drawing a bridge or going to the local museum for Victorians, not going to Egypt for Egyptians). I read their syllabus each term so we can talk about the topics at home.

To me this is a perfectly normal part of child-rearing and supports the education they get at school, where underpaid teachers are on crowd control with thirty kids, some of whom don’t want to or aren’t able to learn.

AIBU to think it’s a parent’s responsibility to support their child’s learning outside of school?

Very much depends on the child.
But I understand not wanting to force a small child to do a collage. Primary school homework, especially in the earlier years is a bit naff outside of reading and maths.
Both of mine love creative stuff so would happily do it, but I wouldn't be sat forcing it.

My 9yo loves homework and learning, assigns herself things to do or learn and we have shared interests outside of the curriculum but honestly I don't think she'd do any worse if I didn't. Not sure how her teachers feel about the weird and wonderful engineering projects she takes in or the excited talks about astronomy.

Reception aged dc needs a bit more effort but stickers for reading do the trick. I'm very lucky as I know others simply refuse.

I wouldn't judge another parent for not though. There have been times when just the basics were a struggle and extra effort just wasn't an option. When dh was critically ill me and dc managed to stay clean/fed and I got them to school, no one would have known anything untoward was happening at home so I'm sure OP would have been there tutting at us when they didn't paint an egg for Easter.

I am similar. However if I hadn’t been read to when very small, I wouldn’t have developed a passion for reading alone. If I hadn’t read so much, I think my whole life would have been significantly harder.

Doing the basics with young children sets them up for life.

But regular reading of non school assigned books is not homework. Homework is stuff set by the school.

There's absolutely tonnes parents can do to support a child's education that is NOT homework, and actual homework has virtually no value, as I said in my first post.

Well, all the academic longitudinal studies into educational outcomes do show a strong correlation between household wealth and the number of books in a home.

That doesn't mean there are cases where a low income families own lots of books or a rich family doesn't own any books. But on population wide level, there is a very clear correlation between those two factors.

Which is why when academics are doing regression analysis of a study, they look for multicollinearity, which is where two variables are high correlated otherwise you get potentially misleading results.

And private primary school is not worth it from an eventual GCSE grade outcome. I'm sure lots of children are having a lovely time at their private school and may be happier there. But as a predictive factor in their likely eventual GCSE grades, a choice of school is much less important than the fact the parents are wealthy enough to pay the fees.

Now children may have an opportunity at the prep school to do other things you think are important or which makes them happy - play the organ, play lacrosse, learn crochet, whatever - that they would not in a state school but that isn't the point I was making. It was that it makes little difference to their ultimate GCSE results.

Not every thing written on the Internet immediately relates to your own life choices! Anecdote is not data!

I think you are extrapolating here it sounds as if your parental support helped your child but that doesn’t mean that it works for all or that all parents who decide not to do the homework are lazy just that different children need different support

DS found primary hard and we did no work on SATS (passed English and just missed maths) and finds high school much easier

I agree with collage - DD is doing textiles and the collating really relaxes her!

Reading your comments you seem to have decided that doing prescribed homework = being a good engaged parent and that without doing it you’re by default disengaged.

You have also raised a busy body - you might want to work on that - who’s judging other kids and making assumptions about homework completion and the colour of their books. He’s at risk of a wedgie as he gets older. No one likes the smug kid.

If they can’t read a colour coded book about Biff they’re never going to learn to read for pleasure, are they?

What makes you think that the parent who said they would not do the collage did not read to their child and/or is not still doing that?

My parents did diddly squat with me, once I could read, and I was top of my school and went to Cambridge. They did however make sure I was fed, rested and loved so nothing got in the way of my education.

Meanwhile, the undergraduates I teach are becoming more fragile and less capable every year.

God, yes. And I put a lot of that down to them being spoon fed and overly supported in school. They should be learning how to learn in school and that is just not happening. The number of students complaining that their grades don't match their expectations is insane. But yet, these are the same students who don't engage in class, that's if they even turn up.

My idea of parental support is very different to the op's. Yes, I read to them when they were young but I was very hands off once they got to the stage where they could read etc. I certainly never did maths practice with them but despite that, all 3 got top grades in maths in their leaving cert (A level equivalent). I encouraged them to be self sufficient and to learn themselves. Two graduated with excellent degrees, the third is on course for the same.

Difference between can read it and need to read it. My children both learned to read without colour coded/ reading ladder books.

Yes it is, in my children’s school at least.

In KS1 they get set books to read to help them learn, AND are encouraged to read for pleasure. In KS2, if they’re past a certain level, they’re “free readers” and can pick their own books. They’re still expected to read every day and to record that reading.

I have someone in my family who is a primary school teacher. They have said that it makes a positive difference when children have support at home with homework and with reading especially. There are also some children who don’t have interested parents but they still do well. Growing up (a long time ago), my parents didn’t take much interest. So my two siblings did very well at school and went on to have good careers without any help from parents. On the other hand, I could have done with the extra support. I have still had a good life but no career aspirations. I think it all depends on the child and circumstances.

Smug post alert.

I made no effort and DD is about to graduate with a first 🤷🏻‍♀️

As a big reader, I am, of course, a fan of reading with your children.

But I think what you're missing is that it's not as easy for everyone so rather than judging people, I think it would be more helpful if you thought about what might be causing some problems for other people and why they might not read as much. Or perhaps how you could help? If people grew up without reading or find it hard or whatever, can you not imagine that they might not therefore prioritise this with their own children? or what if the children are themselves resistant - how do parents who are not keen readers themselves mitigate this?

When I had more time and DS was younger, I did reading in his classroom. Teachers would identify a few children who needed extra support and I'd do 10 minutes with each of them. I don't do it anymore but I know other parents do and it's obviously hugely helpful.

I have never done any of the art homeworks after the first couple.
Because I lack any artistic ability and have a disability that compounds that, but it quickly became clear that some parents were basically going full competitive with each art project and the child was barely involved in them. My son brought in his project he made all by himself and just felt crushed.

Plus we are normally busy at half term doing sports or traveling or going on day trips.

I agree that parents have a big part to play , both reading to and with children, getting them to use their maths and writing etc. and getting them interested in the world.

I also paid for tutors for mine ,either for extra support or extra stretch.

But your example of the collage is a stupid one. I wish schools would stop setting the kind of "homework" that is basically for the parents to do

Yes, this is my point. OP is equating failure to do school assigned homework with a total disinterest in the educational attainment of children and no educational support at home at all. When the reality may be very very different (as in my home).

Not every kid is academically inclined.

Goodness.

DS1 <couldn’t> learn to outside of school. His level of autism means that he compartmentalised school and home so separately that homework or additional learning outside school simply weren’t doable. In mainstream they reduced his homework load significantly. Both there and also in his special school they were very good at allowing him to do what homework he had at lunchtime.

In Y5 in mainstream he had a geography project to make a local building during the school holidays. There was no way in the world that he was going to do this. I enjoy a good craft project so I made a model of the local Sainsbury’s for him. I went waaay too far. Our local Sainsbury’s is bloody massive. So was my model. The finished project was a beWeetabixbox’d thing of architectural magnificence which (apparently) drew a queue of pupils and teachers to the geography room to stare at it, probably completely baffled.

DS2 was in the year below and the (lovely) geography teacher had a quiet word with me to say that when it was his turn to do the project, something smaller and less perfect would suffice! 😄😳

Yes, I’ve said in a previous post that I’ve done the same. I’ve also been a school governor and the trustee of a nursery, and volunteered with youth charities. Now I have two in primary and SD in secondary all with extra curriculars, and work full time, I don’t have time unfortunately. I hope to resume volunteering when DC are adults.

Who said they can’t read it? They can read that at school and do reading at home. But for your information reading with adult, including the adult reading to you, is as useful as reading Biff. In some cases more useful because whilst Biff helps with the technical formation of words it doesn’t build reading fluency, comprehension, vocab etc. reading to a child whilst they follow the text is actually going to support development more than reading Biff 7 times a week. Things you would know if you spent a little less time judging and a little more time on learning about how children learn to read and the elements involved.

Tests like EXACT will look at all aspects of reading, I cannot tell you how many kids we have come up to secondary who are free readers and have been since 8 with excellent word recognition and phonetic awareness but their reading comprehension is weak which is nearly always down to limited reading at home and school. Just reading about Biff for example.

Short summary - mum reading malamander to you at 5 and the 5 year old following is going to be more beneficial than practicing Biff.

No, I think parental support helps but after primary age it’s really up to the child’s own motivation and ability. One of my children graduated with a first in VetMed and apart from showing general interest I had no real input at all after primary.

My younger child is dyslexic and not at all academic. I helped her up to GCSE. She has an MA in an artistic subject but will never be academic in the traditional sense.

Your children are very young. It’s common, I think, to simplify educational outcomes into a formula of, if I do Y now, then Z will follow. It comes from feeling anxious about it all and wanting to control the outcome.

Engagement with their education is great and sets them up well, but how they do at school will depend on their potential, how engaged they are when they have to do the work themselves and how happy they are.

One of mine is very bright - could count to 100 at 2, worked out analogue clocks at 3, taught her herself to read by 4. I was very smug until she was 14 when she hated school, developed school refusal and everything went to shit. I went from envisioning her glittering future to thinking she’d not even finish school. (Everything came right and she’s doing very well again, wants to study maths/physics at uni and is happy and social but I’ll never be smug again, I’ve learned my lesson).

I wouldn’t be self-congratulatory about the boy whose mum doesn’t do the collage. There’s a quite a few boys I’ve seen go through school with my older children who didn’t seem academic, certainly didn’t shine at primary school or early high school but who got it all together in the last few years and out-performed pretty much everyone.

In my experience primary school aged children are set books at their level, then become “free readers” when they’re deemed fluent. The schools set phonics and other books which expand vocabulary. They don’t get set books which are too easy or too hard.

DS loves Goosebumps books which is great but aren’t necessarily teaching him much vocabulary, so we read books the school suggests too (and ones I suggest). I accept maybe not all schools do that which is a shame.