To think academic success is 90% of the time down to the parents

[TameSacha]

Sparked by a conversation I had at the school gates last week about how another parent wouldn’t be bothering with half term homework (which was making a collage).

I have DS8 and DD6. I read with each of them daily (they read to me and vice versa, takes about ten minutes per child), we do five minutes on their maths apps each day, and things like times tables songs in the car. We try to do at least one educational trip a term that matches with what one of them is learning about (think looking at and drawing a bridge or going to the local museum for Victorians, not going to Egypt for Egyptians). I read their syllabus each term so we can talk about the topics at home.

To me this is a perfectly normal part of child-rearing and supports the education they get at school, where underpaid teachers are on crowd control with thirty kids, some of whom don’t want to or aren’t able to learn.

AIBU to think it’s a parent’s responsibility to support their child’s learning outside of school?

If your kids were confident and independent readers at 7, I suspect you’ve done a lot more than you realise (and that a lot of other parents do):

I think it’s a parent’s responsibility, yes. I feel awful with mine because at the moment, I’m just too unwell to get more than just the basic reading done a few times a week (I have cancer and frankly once they are fed, I’m in bed, there’s no time or energy for homework, I wish school could support them more).

BUT that said, I don’t think academic success is down to parent effort. It’s natural talent and grit on the part of the child. I was one of those gifted and talented children. I never had any extra tutoring. Neither of my parents went to university and beyond about Y6 level could not have helped me with homework if they’d wanted to, because they didn’t understand either. It was simply that I was bright and I enjoyed it and I worked hard.

You can tutor test taking, but not really talent and perseverance. Those are much more innate. That’s not to say that social and cultural capital (privilege) won’t get a child far in life though. Some of the powerful people weren’t very academically talented, just privileged, but that’s not the same thing.

The fact that you think you gave her that grounding rather than her teachers is hilarious.

Heres your homework. Have a read.

https://www.hull.ac.uk/work-with-us/more/media-centre/news/2022/primary-school-children-get-little-academic-benefit-from-homework

But we do make sure she’s done her homework and we have given her a good grounding through primary with reading and maths which I think has set her on her path.

Maths teaching was poor at first primary so yes we did step in at home to support - we chose on-line program which got them very clear and competent at basics - and yes getting into top groups at secondary does then mean more options were open to them.

I've been worried due to subject teacher shortages or just absence of teacher or just poor teachers at DC secondary how much support we've had to put in from some subjects. So yes engaged well educated parents are a huge advantage - not least to finding post 16 path here - but other locations and schools that may well be less of an issue.

Both mine were too - did nothing beyond bed time stories which was nothing to do with school. We did that long before they started.

I'm a teacher and frankly some homework is bullshit, especially at primary school. As was said upthread, a stable, loving, supportive home makes a lot of difference. So does having intelligent, educated parents who know what's involved in doing well, applying to university etc and can guide their child. That includes knowing what is and isn't important. I would not have been one of the parents spending ages with their child on a collage (unless my child really wanted to) and I let my dc read books of their choice instead of the crappy, too easy ones the teacher gave them.

Your comments sound smug and a bit privileged tbh. Some parents are not capable of doing what you describe (for various reasons). I teach at a grammar school, where we have quite a lot of bright girls from difficult and chaotic backgrounds. Some of them are very determined and really do find a way to a new and better life through academic achievement.

Yes. My parents were functionally illiterate, very suspicious of anything to do with education, and certainly not able to help with homework, writing notes or anything. I was at a sink estate school. I still achieved. It would definitely have been easier if they’d been in a place to support me, though.

I grew up in a household with intelligent parents who had left school without going university, primarily because of social factors in the town and times they grew up. My Dad was a journalist at a time when you could learn on the job and my Mum did office-manager type work. They both understood the value of education and were clear that my brother and I should work hard at school and do what the teachers told us. They told us both that we were expected to go to University and there was a little bit of “you have opportunities we never had” rhetoric.

But I have zero memory of either of them ever taking any direct interest in what we were learning at school apart from testing us on spelling and going to parents’ evenings. They just expected us to get on with it.

I went to Cambridge and became a solicitor. My brother did a vocational qualification.

My son is 8 and sometimes doesn’t want to do his homework. I tell him that it is up to him, but to imagine what his teacher will say when he doesn’t hand it in. I offer ideas but I don’t spoon feed him. My DH prefers to stand over him until the homework is done. I figure DS won’t learn unless he has to face the consequences himself of not doing the work. It’s a bit of a bone of contention between me and DH actually.

My parents never helped me with collages, projects etc. Which are not 'academic' activities anyway).

I got a PhD (that was 'academic')

They - schoolteacher and lecturer - were pretty 'academic' themselves. Their parents wouldn't have done school projects for them in their childhoods either.

There’s been some research into it - parents income/background plays a much more important factor than being engaged alone with children’s learning.

Links here
https://www.manchester.ac.uk/about/news/parental-help-with-schoolwork-does-little-for-childrens-academic-progress/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191218153459.htm

You really are very narrow minded and lacking in creative thinking 🤔
Did you know that many parents work full time,anti social hours,possible ill health ,children who are not receptive to working at home etc,etc,etc,!!
You really do come across as insufferable .

As a primary school teacher of Year 1 children, undoubtedly there is a huge correlation between the children who have parents actively engaged in their learning at home and those who do not.
Unfortunately, there are far too many parents now who seem to think that education and child-rearing in general is 100% schools responsibility. However, with the best will in the world with 30 children in my class I cannot give each child my undivided attention. Of course, I support everyone as best I can but with the increase in SEN and challenging behaviour, it really really helps if parents can spend a little time with their children supporting their learning. Of course, parenting is hugely challenging but 5 minutes of daily reading can help massively! Many parents say they “don’t have time” but I would argue those same parents have time to scroll social media aimlessly for 5 minutes. With kids, you get out what you put in.

But it doesn't hugely help the children!

I agree that just not doing homework is disrespect, but there's nothing disrespectful about having a polite and informed conversation with the head about your view point.

I agree that it’s a parent’s responsibility to support their child’s learning outside of school but disagree that academic success is 90% of the time down to the parents.
My parents didn't give a shiny shit about what I was up to at school, never helped with homework, didn't attend a single parents evening while I was at high school. I used to forge their signatures on my homework because I'd ask them to sign it and they wouldn't. I somehow still managed to get myself a couple of science degrees. Sweet FA to do with my parents.

Of course the teachers did more hours of the work but she fell behind. If we hadn’t supported her outside of school, I strongly believe she’d still be behind.

Here’s your homework:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7c18d540f0b61a825d66e9/reading_for_pleasure.pdf

It's sad that people are denigrating a primary school collage as 'craft shit' - that sort of activity is valuable for general cultural development, appreciation of the arts and for any kid who could grow up to be a graphic designer, artist, architect & many more jobs. I say this as the parent of kids with no interest in arts and craft and no discernible talent either but I still encourage it where I can.

I look at Asian kids living around London and can imagine how they take over most of the future managerial and other high-paid jobs in the UK. Their parents don't bother with sleep-overs and don't waste their time over-sexualising their under 10 y.o. daughters by arranging birthday parties in a beauty parlour. Instead, there is a strict time-table, daily time for homework, English and Maths tuition and time for independent practice. Basically, they do much more than the school requires. Gaming/TV only on the weekends. This results in very disciplined kids who learn how delaying self-gratification is crucial to success. In my neighbourhood 70-90% of grammar school seats are filled with Asian kids and they constitute less than 20% of the local population. Meanwhile, local village kids at my son's school spend whole days on social media watching dumb videos and performing TK challenges. This tells us something, doesn't it?

Drifting through your education years and then hoping for the best will bring only misery in the future automated AI world with scarce jobs. There is also an increasing competition from so many other countries/ethnicities coming here with a very hard-working culture and dilligent attitude towards education. Therefore the parental push here on educating the kids and fostering the 'working-hard' attitude in them is essential for their future.

Sometimes but I'd say more 50/50. I was always quite a lazy parent in terms of reading/homework as i felt they'd worked hard enough at school, but my dc's did really well and passed entrance exams for two of the top schools in the country. All 8 & 9's and A's in exams and now at Russell group uni's, always been very self motivated etc. I would say dh and I are both naturally bright though and neither of us had involved parents. We were always very encouraging of their interests and pushed them to try things but not "pushy" per se. I think sometimes if your child isn't academic and doesn't enjoy learning no amount of help will change that. And some children from disadvantaged backgrounds go on to do very well.

Also, aside from when I was very small, I didn't read with my parents. I read a lot, but preferred to read alone. I've always enjoyed museums and galleries, but again prefer to experience them alone. I've always hated crafty shit so just wouldn't have done it. I remember vividly a history project was to design and draw a church and I just refused because it had fuck all to do with my capacity to understand historical content and I had better ways to spend my time.

I excelled in exams but very rarely completed homework. I remember a teacher writing on a report that I needed to make more effort, but I was already top of the class. To me that would have been wasted effort so I didn't do it.

My parents always supported me to think critically and independently, and make decisions. They encouraged me to find things out and to really love to learn. I think that stood me in far better stead than them parroting information to me.

I'm very successful, for what it's worth. Always have been. I've just also always been against doing things if there's no tangible benefit.

I think I’ve confused matters because I am counting fundamentals like reading as homework (because the school does too).

You can debate the benefits of doing a collage in half term but regular reading DOES hugely benefit the child.

Everyone knows reading for pleasure helps. But that’s not what you’re talking about. You’re talking about reading for homework. And completing homework. Not the same thing at all.

Reading for pleasure is not the same as reading a colour coded book about Biff the dog.

I don't think anyone would argue that having parental support / input at home isn't a positive for a Childs education and I would guess almost all primary school teachers can tell which children have this and which don't however, you can't say that success is purely down to this.

We did all of the things you mentioned with DS, he coped well in Primary, however once at secondary his SEN needs meant that he just couldn't keep up, he didn't pass his GCSEs and that wasn't through lack of support (including paying tutors near the end), it was simply because he doesn't have the ability to learn, remember and process the information in an exam. (He has passed BTECs which are broken down into course work, practical and short termly exams).

DD probably had less support due to being the second child, child one having a SEN, lockdowns during her primary time, yet is on track to pass all her exams.

Number one thing I'm glad I did with DS educationally was reading together every day from a few months old. Growing up I didn't have much but loved my books - they were all from parents' friends kids handed down to us & I loved them. I also loved our public & school libraries. I don't understand certain friends not having lots of books for their kids (they could well afford it). And even if you can't buy them - there's riches to be had in libraries.

Parental engagement with their child's education is essential. Where you went wrong was linking it to academic success.

It's more about making sure each child is doing their best ,makes progress and keeps learning. Unless incredibly motivated (either naturally or for other reasons) , then that will take time and effort on the parent 's part too. Some parents don't give a shit, some care too much , the ideal is finding the balance and parenting the child you have.