To say that ‘hard work’ alone will never make you rich?

[ThisWaryOtter]

If hard work was all it took, wouldn’t every low-paid worker be wealthy? Isn’t success more about luck, connections, and privilege?

It's not that simple.

Working hard at your education helps lead to better paid jobs.

Working hard on your feet as a waitress isn't.

And educational outcomes. In the current economy that’s a major factor. I think connections are massively overplayed tbh. People talk about “the old school tie” but unless you’re talking about tiny boutique firms, the majority of big payers recruit on a very objective basis.

I think making good decisions has a large part to play.

Hard work especially at school

Luck having a useful set of skills that you enjoy building upon

Lots of luck in getting your first job that has advancement opportunities, where you get on well with others

Opportunities- knowing what they are, being able to access them ( you can't do an unpaid internship in London with no family to support you )

Nerve and expectation and low ties to others - to have the self confidence to apply for bigger and better jobs , to move around the country

So a lot more than hard work

Luck plus hard work.

Luck includes being born to the right parents and not having a disability and having the right connections etc.

I think the use of the word privilege in general society is a label given when nothing else is thought of, I would say it is a case of more decisions joined up in particular way and a drive to succeed, I do not have the drive but am well aware there are people who have that have given me things and benefits I enjoy in life

I would say in any society there is the people who take what they can get and don't care about anyone else, there are plodders who try and do bits but will never 'get there' there are those whose main drive in live is to help others, there are those that have something in them that means they have a certain determination to succeed in a goal whether that is sport, making money, being a top musician, or maybe another competitiveness

If you take a group of 100 random people and put them in a room I would find most people would fit into a group, and think about what we have in our lives that means other people have their own success?

Hard work definitely plays a part, but also making smart decisions, planning ahead, natural abilities, both academic but also confidence, people skills etc.

I tell my daughter, work hard now, and you won't have to work as hard later. I worked very hard at school and early in my career, and also worked hard to get myself up the property ladder, doing up properties and having a vision of there potential. This more than anything has made the difference. DH and I started out first jobs out of uni earning 20k, 20 years later we earn about 50k each, decent salary but not one which we could have bought our current house ( worth just over a million, with a 200k mortgage) with, without having been very financially smart. We didn't get any money from parents/inheritance, no connections, no privilege beyond being reasonably smart academically and having parents who encouraged us, which was very valuable.

If by "luck" you mean academic ability, or talent then yes - hard work without that is not enough. But talent without hard work gets you nowhere either. It also depends what you mean by "rich" - if you mean comfortable, with no money worries, then hard work can get you a lot of the way there if you make good choices. If you mean a level of wealth that will sustain your grandchildren, then maybe not.

I think natural aptitude/talent is also part of it. I'm extremely academic, but my parents have no qualifications/dropped out of school, were on benefits when I was young etc etc. But having a natural aptitude for learning I did well with minimal encouragement at home. I started a professional job with no connections (I didn't know a single adult with a professional job at that point), but the corporate world makes a lot of sense to me, and the tactics for climbing the ladder are blatantly obvious and come naturally to me.

I'm now one of the fasted promoted people at my workplace, earning £100k by the time I was 30. I definitely worked smart not hard (I put all my focus into the things I was good at, and could get away with ignoring the things I was less good at).

I think that's more luck than privilege, but I think it's a bigger determiner of success than hard work.

Hard work is a bit of a fallacy. You could work every hour god sends for minimum wage and never get anywhere.

It depends, not all hard work = working hard and vice versa. Hard work won't be the only thing making someone rich, but in a lot of cases it's probably a contributing factor.

Working hard as a waitress can lead to a supervisor position, which can lead to a management position, which can lead to an area management position which can lead to a position within training, marketing etc. It can also teach skills that can be used in other, better paid jobs. Working hard as a waitress can absolutely lead to wealth but like every other job there has to be a combination of hard work, ambition, talent and choosing career moves wisely.

When you say the corporate world makes a lot of sense to you and that the tactics for climbing the ladder are blatantly obvious, would you mind elaborating? I’d love to hear more, like what specific tactics do you think have helped you the most?

You need to be working 'smart' as well as 'hard'.

The hardest I ever worked was on my feet in retail on minimum wage. I was surrounded by, without a doubt, the hardest working people I ever knew. Stacking shelves in retail gets such a bad rep but actually it's frigging hard work, and many, MANY people who do it work multiple jobs to bring in enough income (if they're the breadwinner etc).

But... I played the game, kept chasing promotions, learnt how to 'speak in corporate' and impress people, and leveraged my experience across different industries until I got into a high paying role. I'm not 'rich' now but am comfortable, and am on track to be able to do things like help DS with a house deposit/pass on generational wealth. Yes a fair amount of luck, and hard work, but also making strategic decisions and 'chasing' my dreams. The same people I worked with before are still on NMW and working their asses off every day.

I agree.

Hard work often isn’t an important as luck or circumstance.

It often comes up in convo about inheritance “my parents worked hard all their life to leave us X amount” but really the parents probably bought their house 50 years ago for twice one person’s annual salary after going to uni on a grant, and have now amassed a decent amount of wealth. Not saying hard work doesn’t come into it at all but the same result won’t be there for a couple who have worked minimum wage jobs and rented all their lives.

Also, “hard work” seems to have been given far too much important over a work life balance, especially for men who are often expected to work overtime and spend less time with their families, like their grandfathers did. But in modern jobs hard work and presenteeism are often confused.

Nope. My DH came from a really difficult, poor upbringing to earning £100k+ plus per year with hard work. School wasn’t for him (he left with no GCSEs except maths) so he left to become an electrician. Finally found what he was good at, became a refrigeration engineer and built up his own business, worked all hours of the day + night, went to uni to study physics and saved money to go to pilot training school. The rest is history!

Not everyone can be rich. Some people can get there with hard work. There is only a certain amount of jobs or business opportunities, lottery wins to go round. There would be no such thing as getting/being rich if it was possible for most. It would become the baseline and would effect be poor or average. Telling every child
they could be rich one day only sets up most of them for disappointment

Depends what you mean by rich, but it's unlikely you're going to achieve it by working a job for someone else, regardless how hard you work.

Whatever you do or however you make your money, I think the key is having an appetite for risk. Hard work, whatever your definition of that is, luck, or privilege doesn't always come into it.

Well of course ‘hard work’ alone will never make you rich.
Anyone who thinks that is probably a very long way from being rich!

Not hard work alone no.
hard work plus some or all of drive/ambition/intellect and entrepreneurial and/or technical skill can make anyone from any background rich. And luck always plays a hand.

I "work hard" as a care worker. 15hr shifts, four days a week. 7am-10pm, with a 35 minute commute, driving between clients.
I'm not sure how I could work any 'harder'?

I'm not sure what "working smarter" means in the context of my work?
Someone has to do care work. It's been my life for 29 years, and I love it.
Me "working smarter" doesn't take away from the fact that someone has to work at grassroots level?

Apparently you rarely get rich workimg for other people

Money needs to be a factor when choosing your career path. Many DC are just encouraged to follow their interests ....

Well to be rich, you often need both hard-work and the skills for whatever job is going to be paying well.

If a job requires someone to be really clever, then (unless the employer is cash-strapped) it should pay well, as only a small proportion of the population will have the potential to do it. Those people will still have had to work hard to realise their potential, and will continue to have to work hard in a job that challenges them.

If you work hard at a job that loads of people could do, you still won't get paid as much as there'll always be someone to take your place.

There's also the idea of work smarter, not harder - when does hard work signal inefficiency (thinking of the guy in that recent thread who was manually adding data values from a database)?

Should also say that both of his parents died from cancer when he was around 10/12. No inheritance as the family had very little money, anything they had went to his aunt who looked after DH and his brother. Everything he has earned is completely down to his own work.

I don't think it's hard work that does it. It's a number of factors;
Confidence- the belief in yourself that you can get to where you want to be. This can give you drive the push through the tough times and help networking to charm connect with the right people to get what you need, investment/ advice etc.

High Risk takers- a lot of the big self made business owners takes the big risks that others wouldn't. It's one of the reasons I'll never be wealthy, I prefer low risk and guaranteed/ steady income.

Short and long term decision making- most of us are working through life best we can day to day. Successful people are always working towards long term goals, making sure the big picture is key and all the little decisions lead there. Being able to forsee issues and switch track as soon as possible