To say that ‘hard work’ alone will never make you rich?

[ThisWaryOtter]

If hard work was all it took, wouldn’t every low-paid worker be wealthy? Isn’t success more about luck, connections, and privilege?

Without sounding like too much of a wanker (I strongly suspect I'm about to fail), I think it depends on what you define as success.

I tend to think it's down to the decisions you make rather than hard work in terms of how your life pans out. E.g. myself and my cousin, virtually identical childhoods, backgrounds and opportunities (lived 1/4 mile apart, same schools, similar academically etc). We made very different decisions. WILDLY different lives now.

I think this is increasingly the case, as we are moving to a society where wealth is inherited.

It really concerns me that younger people will give up working as it just doesn't yield the rewards it used to. You can work hard, earn well and still end up with little disposable income at the end of the month.

Whereas your friends who don't, may work less but be supported by the bank of mum and dad.

It's not so much literally being given a job as a favour, it's the exposure and encouragement. If you look around at your friends' parents, older siblings, people who were a couple of years above you at your school, and you see that they are, let's say, working in hedge funds, you now know:

A) that hedge funds exist, and a bit about what they are and what the job is, and
B) that someone like you can do that job. Why not - your mate's big brother Pete is no smarter than you.

Then, if you want to learn more, you can have a chat with mate's big bro Pete and get some useful information that will help you get the right experience and position yourself well - or a steer to something else that suits you better.

Without that, you don't even know these jobs exist till it feels "too late", and then there's the psychological barrier of feeling like that must be a separate world. Even if you have top grades.

Correct.

Hmm… I’ll use my DF as an example. He grew up Irish catholic in very rural NI in absolute poverty. Next to no formal education and statistically the odds were stacked against him, but he is the smartest person I know. By a long shot.

He is also the hardest working person I know. Working 100+ hours a week were normal (still not unheard of now, he enjoys it, he certainly doesn’t need to do it). He’s now a multimillionaire. I don’t know of anyone else who would put that much hard work in.

I often see posts on here about people refusing to answer a work call after hours and putting the bare minimum effort in. That’s not the work ethic I seen in him. He always drilled in me to put my very best effort to absolutely everything I did.

Life choices make a huge impact. Education, education, education. Not having children you can’t afford. Willingness to move to a new area.
Determination, a life plan and hard work gives you a much better chance and many more choices.

Hard work in the right direction/area, smart decision making.

It helps if you understand how money is made, and how you can link what you do, with either supporting making money/reducing costs. Understanding supply/demand and choosing rare, in demand skills to focus on.

You always need to not focus on what interests you or makes you "feel fulfilled" over much as these don't tend to lead to you being paid well.

Sometimes people have the same abilities and opportunities but make different decisions. This has happened in my family. Some of us worked hard at school and went to university, into professional jobs, bought houses etc. Others went straight into manual jobs because at the time it was 'good money' It was all about instant gratification and not looking to the future and they certainly didn't grasp opportunities they were offered. They didn't buy a house or pay into a pension and face a bleak future.

Yes

Connections and privilege are definitely the biggest factors but some people will get rich on hard work and luck. Upbringing is also a factor.

It’s hard to articulate as it’s sort of second nature for me, but things like when opportunities arise I can see which ones make sense for me to do to further my career goals, and how to leverage them to my benefit (it sounds more ruthless than it is!).

But for example we’ve had a recent change in structure at work that I can see would be the perfect opportunity for one of my colleagues to get a promotion he’s been saying he wants for ages. But he’s doing nothing about it. As it happens is also presents an opportunity for me to increase my internal profile with some stakeholders that I’ve not really managed to get face time with yet (but in a more tangential way than for him, and not in way that would stop him either). I’ve reached out to our boss’ boss to say I can see some opportunities in the change and I’d be keen to get involved in the team leading the changes. Turns out there is no team, so I’m now taking the lead and this has been a great way to get in front of senior leadership - in fact I told my boss’ boss that I would lead this if he would help me get in front of senior leadership to tell them what I’ve done.

But I’m always really clear on who my stakeholders are that influence my promotion, and go out of my way to find opportunities to work with them to prove myself to them, so that they’re advocates when the time comes around.

I’m also helping one of my appraisees get onto more projects that show their skillset. They’ve been doing a decent job in their role for years but can’t understand why they’re never put forward for promotion. I can see that it’s because the projects they work on have other ‘leaders’ that prevent them showing leadership skills. He hasn’t ever asked around to get involved with projects that would give him this opportunity, and now - even if he doesn’t get it - all of his seniors understand he wants to work on this skill and therefore will consider this at promotion time, instead of thinking of him as someone who’s not a leader.

You have to work hard AND
look for openings, opportunities, be proactive, take on extra training, be consistent/reliable/committed, network, build professional relationships, build your reputation.
It all takes a long time, but eventually it pays off.

Also - look after the pennies, spend wisely, be a saver not a spender, don't buy on credit, live frugally, don't pretend to be flash and don't spend beyond your means.
Enjoy your money but in sensible ways (supermarket prosecco rather than One Stop 😄)

Then you can accrue wealth - slowly and gradually.

My dad had rich grandparents who sent him to a prestigious boarding school and bought him his first house. He left school with zero qualifications, never went to uni and now lives a life of luxury abroad having retired in his early 50s.

I had no help from parents whatsoever. I worked hard in education at a comprehensive school and went on to get ca degree.
I am now in my early 50s, still rent, have no savings and won’t be able to retire ever unless I win the lottery.

Hard work but also lots of other things. Not being afraid to apply for better or better paid jobs, I think is a big thing. Looking for the next step up rather than settling. If you want to that is. I get restless in jobs but appreciate that's a me thing.

Rich is subjective. Comfortable or literally being able to spend what and when. As others have said:

• life choices - Where you live, who you marry. How you structure your finances.
• Prioritising the right education (in areas that teach wealth growth and high paying careers)
• continuous learning in your career and delivering results to drive pay rises
• investing - not saving. Huge difference
• planning ahead. Map out how you achieve your financial goals. Millions in the pension, stocks ISA, investment portfolio diversity etc
• life within your means and avoid lifestyle creep
• prioritise experiences and high quality products. A 10yr pair of shoes for £500 is cheaper than buying £80 pairs annually....

Etc etc.
for context, I don't consider myself rich, but I'd say I'm well on the way to setting our family up. Mortgage cleared, pension and S&S isa on the go and well diversified, high paying career. Financial planning has been part of my life 20+ yrs. im 40.

Teach your kids:
How to invest
Start their SIPP at birth (20k will grow to 600k over 55yrs without any further contributions)
Target high paying careers that they would be good at and learn to love. Worst advice jve heard is "follow your heart"

Christ almighty, some of the replies. I already knew privileged people had no actual, practical idea about the advantages they have, but I didn't know how many of you genuinely thought you were so astute for being in the position that you are.

Yes, I'm sure you've worked hard. I'm sure you did well in education. I'm sure you made perfect choices. But if you had been working class, in poverty, in the care system, with a disability, then none of this would have made a bit of difference.

There are multiple complex reasons why this is true, but they don't occur to you.

Not everyone is academic though.
My partner left school with no qualifications but did extremely well.

It's not all bad though, in fact I'm particularly enjoying how many people have missed the point entirely and are posting their inane advice of how to be successful, as a privileged person (because obviously everyone would be like them if they just followed their advice, no?).

Agree - l have only left jobs if l am really miserable - if l am comfortable, l will stay forever. I have no ambition to better myself or work my way up - just isn't me. Look at my boss and think fucknthat, she is so ambitious but not good work/life balance. I work to live not live to work.
But l am doing ok!

Many people that have built themselves a career or a business and have now begun to accrue some wealth have also come from working class families, have had a regular education, no financial/parental support and have disabilities.

It's not unknown.

All my 12 cousins and me fit into this category.

My dad came from a v poor background and always said "you'll never get rich working for someone else" like a few pp have said here. He started as a young man without enough food to eat and made money through being quite entrepreneurial with the housing market.

He's wrong though - me and DH both went to a top uni, high paying industries and make over £100k each a year working for someone else. We're maybe not rich, but our combined income should be about £250k by the end of this year and we're early 30s. So a lot above average.

I've also worked minimum wage jobs in the past - they're no less difficult, but in my current role I am expected to be very smart and make difficult, high pressure decisions on a daily basis. Not everyone would be able to do it well. Whereas most people could do a minimum wage job well. So you don't get paid more for "working harder" but you do get paid more for being more highly trained and more specialised.

If you want to earn well, focus on becoming more educated/well trained and specialised in what you do.

It’s hard work, plus making smart choices.

A lot of people, despite working hard, get comfortable and then don’t push themselves to try get better opportunities.
I have changed jobs every 2 years and pushed myself with each role and have tripled my salary within a few moves, whereas a lot of people I know have been in the same job 10+ years because they are comfortable.

This is an excellent answer.

I worked very hard att school, went to a good co-ed grammar, got a decent degree at university then worked hard to get up the career ladder in publishing.

I was getting on ok, reached the level of assistant editor earning about £30k. Then, made redundant twice before going freelance, then even worse luck meant I had a head injury and post concussion syndrome before being injured by off label psychotropic drugs. I've had a neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia, but have just got back into work thankfully after a publishing connection contacted me and offered me work (during the time I was unwell, I had my two youngest children too, and started work when my DD went to school last September).

Anyway, my long rambling answer basically is saying that I'm sure that luck played a higher part in my redundancies, health problems and employment than hard work.

I often sit and wonder where I'd be career-wise if I'd not been unwell. I'd probably had a better paid job and not be earning less than NMW now.

I find it so demoralising when I think about just how hard i really worked at school. I sometimes wonder if it was worth the stress 😩 😪

Timing and the economy is everything. You could be the brightest best educated and hardest working person in a particular niche area and get nowhere because you missed the crest of the wave. Your equals 10 years older could be extremely successful and that's just tough luck.

Exactly this too. I know it sounds entitled to say this, but I'm pretty sure my parents will be ok with leaving me quite a good inheritance, and I'll be fortunate to have some good value in their house if it isn't needed for care fees etc.

If all the money that they have goes on their final Golden years then that of course, is wonderful and it is their money to spend as they wish. I'm not entitled to any of it really, I'm just thinking there could be something if they are healthy into very old age.

Of course, I am self sufficient too with my DH, but it is nice to think there may be a bonus of something extra one day perhaps too from them.