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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be angry that Government policy means young doctors, nurses and other HCPs cannot find jobs

795 replies

Needmoresleep · 16/02/2025 15:22

Unbelievable but true.

Doctors, nurses and other health care professionals now have to compete for jobs and training with applicants from across the world. No priority is given to those already in the country.

Even ordinary entry level jobs can attract hundreds of applicants within a few hours. Newly qualified doctors and nurses need that first job to get the experience that overseas applicants will be able to offer.

In 2021 immigration law was changed and something called the Resident Market Labour Test was dropped for health and care workers. It means that the UK may be the only country not to prioritise those already in the country.

The previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5267503-aibu-to-be-furious-that-there-are-no-jobs-for-young-doctors?page=1
included a number of stories. An entire graduating class of nurses unable to find that first job whilst administrators from the local hospital were taking recruitment trips to Asia. An experienced GP wanting to return from a career break only to discovering that she, and others in a similar position, could not find work, a consultant surprised at how well qualified locums seeking zero hours, short notice, cover work are. The number of overseas doctors applying for the limited number of specialist training positions in the UK doubled between 2023 and 2025.

A group of us, who have been on the higher education board since our DC were first applying to medical school, recently discovered that none of our DC, coming to the end of their foundation years (F1& F2) expect to get anything other than the odd shift with NHS bank. Most see moving to Australia as the only way to stay in medicine. They say the same applies to their peers.

Our young doctors have spent seven or eight years getting to where they are, and have £100,000 of student loans to repay. The taxpayer has spent £250,000 on each of them.

Unfortunately the NHS does not appear to keep data on the number of applicants per vacancy, nor on vacancies that, because of the numbers applying, close within a few hours. It also does not appear to question why such a small proportion of F2s are progressing within the NHS. Instead there seems to be an assumption that this wastage is somehow natural, and that the solution is to re-double international recruitment efforts, to increase medical school places, and to replace traditional junior doctor roles with less skilled Physician Associates. Measures that will only increase the problem.

If things are not changed, even more of our skilled and dedicated young people will find themselves without jobs. We would welcome experiences, information and ideas.

Please also spread the word, write to your MP, tell people in a position to influence who may not be aware. We have a shortage of doctors, nurses, midwives, and paramedics. Our first priority is to ensure that those already in the country are able to get jobs.

If young Doctors were asked, and the same will apply to other Health Care Professionals, they would argue that:

  • Busy F2s work long shifts including nights which makes extensive job search difficult
  • Posts often attract hundreds of applicants, and close within a few hours. This level of competition is in itself off-putting
  • Overseas applicants are often supported by agencies who can set alerts for vacancies and ensure that multiple applications are submitted. No such support is offered to UK applicants,
  • These agencies will help with the writing of applications so they score well against NHS selection criteria. Again no such careers support is offered to UK applicants.
  • The Government/NHS offer incentives for overseas doctors including bringing in dependents and scope for future citizenship, as well as some exemptions from some exams and relocation packages. These may motivate overseas doctors to apply for entry level jobs even if they are overqualified. Entry level jobs which our newly qualified young people need.
  • Various extensive and expensive courses are advertised on the internet designed to give participants an advantage when applying for specialist training in the UK. In contrast many UK medical schools do very little to ensure that their graduates have the additional academic super-curricular that, with current levels of competition, are effectively requirements to gain a training place. This year it is predicted that only 50% of the around 4,500 places will go to graduates from UK medical schools, even though it is recognised that for many UK training is simply a passport to well paid jobs in private hospitals in Singapore, Dubai or their home countries. This is poor workforce planning. If we are going to avoid a future shortage of consultants we need to prioritise those likely to build a future in the UK.
Many young doctors will see a couple of years in Australia as a reasonable fall-back. They accept that they will be taking jobs Australians don’t want and will be at the back of the queue when it comes to specialist training, but they will also be gaining experience in a different healthcare environment.

Others, including those with family or caring responsibilities, or those who brought their families over when offered fixed term contracts, simply face unemployment. We should not be recruiting overseas when we have good, qualified, NHS experienced, doctors, nurses and other HCPs in the UK driving Ubers or working in Tesco.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
84
Barleypilaf · 16/02/2025 15:40

YANBU - Boris Johnson got rid of the Residency Labour Market Test for all jobs. The situation is madness and the doctor/nurse situation highlights it. The U.K. spends hundreds of thousands to train medical students, but then they are unemployed. It is not because there are no jobs, but because the NHS is recruiting overseas, with reduced standards (exemptions from exams)

Before Johnson, employers could only hire from abroad if there was no suitable U.K. candidate. This should be reinstated.

lateatwork · 16/02/2025 15:46

The job market has changed. Change with it.

Why don't you set up an agency like the one you describe above for you child and their peers?

Ferrazzuoli · 16/02/2025 15:49

YANBU. I find this really shocking.

mumsneedwine · 16/02/2025 15:49

I assume @lateatwork is v happy to not see a doctor when they have a heart attack.

We have enough doctors. We pay thousands to train them. And then we don't employ them.

lnks · 16/02/2025 15:52

Please can you included the sources you have used to produce all of the points in your post?

I am a mature student nurse in my second year. The vast majority of student nurses at my university graduate having already secured a job. If fact, many of us are already working part-time as HCP whilst completing our degrees.

ProfessorLayton1 · 16/02/2025 15:54

Agree with everything you have said. If anyone is interested have a look at the IMT recruitment point system which was used this time. I am told that this changes quite regularly and our foundation trainees cannot even prepare for this. This years cut off to get an interview was 15/16 , it is impossible to most of our newly qualified doctors who are settling in their jobs and from this year do not have any say in where they are sent for their jobs!

mumsneedwine · 16/02/2025 15:56

Anyone from anywhere in the world (including red list countries), can apply to work in NHS on an equal footing as existing staff. Only country in the world that does this. We pay to train them, then force our own staff abroad.

AIBU to be angry that Government policy means young doctors, nurses and other HCPs cannot find jobs
AIBU to be angry that Government policy means young doctors, nurses and other HCPs cannot find jobs
AIBU to be angry that Government policy means young doctors, nurses and other HCPs cannot find jobs
Barrenfieldoffucks · 16/02/2025 15:57

Why has the exact same post been made again?

mumsneedwine · 16/02/2025 16:00

@Barrenfieldoffucks because the previous one filled up.

EmeraldShamrock000 · 16/02/2025 16:00

Disturbing, the government seems to supports everyone but the citizens in the UK.

lateatwork · 16/02/2025 16:00

mumsneedwine · 16/02/2025 15:49

I assume @lateatwork is v happy to not see a doctor when they have a heart attack.

We have enough doctors. We pay thousands to train them. And then we don't employ them.

Huh? Oh do jog on.

mumsneedwine · 16/02/2025 16:00

@Barrenfieldoffucks you don't have to read it again - it's optional 😂

mumsneedwine · 16/02/2025 16:01

@lateatwork love a good jog. Also like to see a doctor so 'recruitment has changed' is really not a helpful comment. Unless you don't like doctors ?

lnks · 16/02/2025 16:02

I wonder why my experience is completely different. One of my friends who graduated last year had 4 job offers.

mumsneedwine · 16/02/2025 16:06

It can be v area dependent. But lots of nurses found getting a job v difficult.

jellyfishperiwinkle · 16/02/2025 16:09

EmeraldShamrock000 · 16/02/2025 16:00

Disturbing, the government seems to supports everyone but the citizens in the UK.

Just to note, it was the Conservative government who brought this policy in, to cover up their own total FUBAR with Brexit which meant so many NHS staff left the country.

TheEllisGreyMethod · 16/02/2025 16:09

Might be very area dependent but in Wales there are multiple band 5 nursing and AHP vacancies, I am putting the same advert out 2-4 times to get a single applicant.
Similar situation with doctors - I know we had vacancies for GP training this year for example...

lnks · 16/02/2025 16:10

The nationality should not be the deciding factor. I am at university with some students nurses who are not good at their jobs.

People who manage to just about pass exams, but only just. One if them is only getting around 50% in exams, essays etc. they’re getting almost half of the questions wrong! How is that good for patient safety.

Would you rather be treated by a person like that just because they were born in the U.K. or would you rather be treated by the best person for the job?

dammit88 · 16/02/2025 16:11

Im a bit confused by this - surely the best applicant is given the job? Or are you saying overseas qualified drs are given priority?

ProfessorLayton1 · 16/02/2025 16:15

lateatwork · 16/02/2025 15:46

The job market has changed. Change with it.

Why don't you set up an agency like the one you describe above for you child and their peers?

It's not true for NHS as it has monopoly in this country and it sets the terms and conditions for medical/ nursing recruitment.
A 23/24 year old newly qualified doctor do not have a choice where he or she will be sent post qualification, it's not based on merit and it's completely random. You could be from Wales, train in London and be sent to Lancashire- where you do not have family/ friends to do a stressful job.

Job market has changed for worse!!

lnks · 16/02/2025 16:17

Exactly. If any of us were ill and had a choice between a UK doctor/nurse/HCP who was British but significantly worse at their job that their non British counterpart, none of us would choose the British person.

ProfessorLayton1 · 16/02/2025 16:23

dammit88 · 16/02/2025 16:11

Im a bit confused by this - surely the best applicant is given the job? Or are you saying overseas qualified drs are given priority?

It's based on scoring system and is open to anyone/ everyone from the world who could apply. The scoring system is not in our junior doctors favour as they work in ever busy nhs hospitals (just see the recent BBC news coverage of Royal free ) and do not have time to jump through the hoops.
Most doctors are taking a year off their training ( doing short term jobs) to gain these points. This bottleneck happens every time they move up a training grade. It is short sighted as you do loose trainee to other countries. But this will delay the current trainees becoming consultants. This will also have a knock on effect on super specialisation in the future

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